Discussion: Reports: Warren Says Obamacare Isn't Bold Enough, Hurt Dems

No it isn’t, but is is what could be passed.


It is great to see E. Warren taking more aggressive stands, would love it if she became minority leader but don’t believe the Dems have the courage to buck Schumer.

She should turn the gopers insult of her back on them until they say that “look out for Warren, she will poke and haunt us.”


Dear Sen Warren, Bill Maher, and Michael Moore:

Ohio here. Ohioans do not talk to you like they do to each other. It is the other side of our Midwestern Nice. If you think this election was just about the white working class in America and not religion and race you are misreading it. Every time you say it was about jobs/economics/healthcare my rural Ohio raised husband laughs out loud. I grew up in the city, but have spent the last 30 years visiting rural in-laws every other weekend.

In the Ohio rural and exurban areas we have the practitioners of White Flight and the children of White Flight. You may have gotten over school busing, but they still haven’t. And don’t get them started on marriage equality and who they will do business with or hire. And their daughters have become single mothers because of abortion rights/contraception/mandated sex education and the Bible being taken out of the public schools. All this religiosity, but the last time they went to church was a great aunt’s funeral.

They will not move to areas of the state with jobs because they would have to live and work beside ‘the other.’ The jobs must come to them, And they should, after all they are the embodiment of Real America!

PS Mr Moore, the backhand of Midwestern Nice also applies to you. You went Hollywood.


You pretty much described rural Virginians.

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DNC, please make a note. Stop using terms like:

  • little guy
  • average American
  • ordinary American
  • common man

    Nobody wants to think of themselves as little, common, average, or ordinary.

    Drop the adjectives. You represent Americans.


    Please substitute "lies’ for ‘messages’ in this statement: She said that Donald Trump’s message to voters

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    • Republican governors and legislators who refused to expand Medicaid in their states, who refused to hold accountable the insurers who proposed rate hikes, who refused to publicize open enrollment periods;

    • Republican governors and legislators who slashed spending and laid off hundreds of thousands of employees, offsetting the stimulative effects of the Obama administration, and

    • The Republican-led Congress that refused to consider the American Jobs Act, that forced this country into austerity as soon as they won the House in 2010.

    But no, it’s the Democrats that gave up on the little guy, right?!

    I can’t wait for this circular firing squad to be over. The Democratic Party is on the verge of becoming the Emo Party of benighted losers.


    Very excellent point, and we need to take this very seriously.

    I, blue-to-my-core, agree whole-heartedly with Sen Warren that the ACA was not bold enough (I too dreamed of a public option).

    However, let’s not fall into the same autopsy trap the GOP did after Romney, albeit in reverse. Many in the GOP came out of it with"he didn’t win because he wasn’t conservative enough" rather than looking at their values. We should not necessarily say “Hillary didn’t win because she wasn’t liberal enough.” Let’s not forget, she did win a majority – but it was all in the liberal areas. Weakened vis-à-vis Obama or not, she still won the liberal side. Being more liberal may not necessarily have won the day – we’ll never know. And maybe Romney would have won if he’d been more conservative – that we will also never know.

    So, let’s try to do what the GOP didn’t do that time: do the autopsy, but then actually do something constructive about that autopsy. What needed to be done differently to message to the folks that @nowarino has described? The policies which she proposed would have benefited those folks, possibly more than anyone else, why couldn’t we get that across?


    Sounds like something that could be cleared up with marriage outside the family. Alternatively an appealing option would be napalm round-the-clock.

    Same sex marriage was not my issue but at some point you look at the people on the other side and make a determination: who will I stand with?


    Because of the damn emails and the rural folk really, really hate anything associated with liberals whether it helps them or not.


    Sounds about right. For example, Trumpcare could be modeled on Singapore, which spends 4% of GDP on healthcare instead of 18% like the US – and it covers everybody. It is based on health savings accounts. Alternatively, he could pull a Bill Thomas and create a Medicare donut hole. That is, just pass a law that says everybody aged 18 or below, or 55 and above, is now on Medicare. Medicare has fairly low administative costs. Then, gradually, as the covered cohort ages, the age would move up every year along with that cohort. At the same time, the “finish line” would be lowered to by a year each year, so 54, 53, etc., with universal coverage kicking in after, say, 15 years, as the uncovered cohorts have shrunk. Universal coverage is the norm, but 10% of GDP is also the norm. We have too much free-riding, which is a problem.

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    Would be wonderful all right. Makes perfectly good sense. The US’s 18% is because we don’t have something similar.

    But OMG!! Danger, Will Robinson!!

    Socialized Medicine!!!

    GOP warning lights flashing!!


    Yo, eggroll – these are all creative ideas, but I’m stuck at the “just pass a law” part. The Republicans now control the government, and they have no incentive whatever to correct problems with a law they did their best to defeat. Any illusions on this point can be cured by a brief review of the Wikipedia article on the Congressional debates surrounding the ACA:

    Despite all of the concessions to the Republicans, not a single Senate Republican voted for the bill – on the contrary, they all voted to filibuster it. When Scott Brown filled Ted Kennedy’s seat, the Dems lost their technical 60-vote filibuster proof majority (technical, because Lieberman and Nelson were allegedly Democrats).

    I’m curious to see where the Repubs go from here. Ignorant Trump says he’ll keep the pre-existing condition waiver and the age 26 provisions, but without the insurance mandate claims will rise faster than income from premiums. This will be interesting to watch, but there’s no way the “Repeal and Replace” will result in anything resembling sustainable affordable health care.


    Precisely. A lot of people seem to have amnesia about the legislative process that lead to the Affordable Care Act. It took fucking forever and almost didn’t pass at all.


    You can thank Joe LIEberman, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, Mark Pryor and Mary Landrieu for that.


    Yes, I know, you are so right. Part of what I do in my job has to do with looking at how people evaluate information and make decisions. It’s pretty scary when you read the literature as to how most people generally decide based on a very small number of data points (about 3) in most cases — and then lock in to the first conclusion reached even when presented with contrary evidence (“my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts”). But even scarier is how huge a role emotions play; we all like to believe we make rational decisions, but the reality is that we seldom do.


    That’s bullshit. Michael Moore was one of the few people who saw the frustration of the white non-college/working class while other people were content to call them “deplorables”. They - or rather the ones that made a difference in this election - have, despite your efforts to paint them all as Bible-thumping black and homo hating troglodytes with a sense of privilege, real beefs with their economic conditions.

    You can mock them until the cows come home. But you won’t win many Presidential elections that way.


    The alternative would be to sit back and let millions of Americans die prematurely and suffer needlessly. That would include a lot of the working class white voters who supported Trump. Surely you are not implying that he would betray the very people who put him in office, and instead pass massive tax cuts that only benefit 10% of American households?


    Do you live in the Midwest? Do you regularly converse with exurban and rural folk in their own rec rooms with a Keg-O-Rator?

    Michael Moore’s and your attitude is the real patronizing liberal position…