Discussion for article #243441
I think the new wife was the inspiration of the whole event. The guy was born here and lived a normal life and didn’t even show signs of religious interest until he met and married the girl.
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I am not sure we can say that much about it honestly. Just because somebody seemed normal does not always mean they are or were. Some people can be deeply religious it but do not parade it to the world. It really could have just been an out for other issues too. Hard to say at this point.
Yup. And this couldn’t play in to GOP’er hands better if it were crafted by them to do so. An American born Muslim man and a Muslim women here on a “fiancee’s visa” shoot 14 Americans to death. I am not sure how much better it could be for those that want all of Islam to be the enemy. It’s perfect for Trump…Cruz…it’s damn perfect.
Hate to say it but this is going to move a lot of folks in the Anti-Muslim direction. And they are probably not wrong. We have a problem. Europe has a problem…despite what folks might want to say.
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As difficult as the job may be, if the NSA insists on mass surveillance, they’ve got to do a better job of thwarting these attacks in real time. Or what’s the point? Following a digital trail after the attack is cold comfort for the victim’s families.
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You have no idea when the men started to sympathize with the ISIS folks. It might be comfortable to think the way you do but he may have sought out that fiancee because he shared sentiments with her. This is a mess and it may require American Liberals to do some soul searching. I’m not saying we have to go wingnut but there is a problem…bigger than Liberals want to believe but smaller than Conservatives want us to. It’s there.
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They do thwart most. In this case there was no digital trail that led to the killers. It wasn’t until access to their computers was obtained that aliases were discovered and the trail established. As bad as NSA is it’s not snooping around inside everyone’s computers. It will have to do that to catch folks like these.
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I think this case illustrates the fact that the effects of organized religion on humans can be compared that of toxins. In small doses, religion can sometimes lead to peace of mind and altruism. However, when taken at higher doses it is detrimental. Likewise a dose that is not toxic to most can be toxic to isolated vulnerable individuals. Religion like some drugs can also be addictive.
It looks like this killer and his wife, drank too much kool aid, memorized the koran and began to interpret some of the supposed words of allah too literally. The connections with Pakisatan and Saudi Arabia, which are the epicenters of modern day wahabbi sunni terrorism, made things worse.
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If they were loyal to ISIL (or if she was) why would they try to hide that? Isn’t the whole point of such attacks to declare openly that they are being undertaken as some kind of retribution or punishment of infidels, or whatever ISIL considers it is doing? Did they scrub evidence and hide their identities because they thought they could get away with it? To be honest, they sound as confused as Dylann Roof – like killing people was more of an exercise in self-actualization to convince themselves of their own bona fide status as “good Muslims,” however perverted their views were, rather than trying to carry out some methodological attack based on ideological ends. But at least I know this, no one is going to suggest invading Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
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Stop drinking the Kool-Aid of the right-wing media. Mass murderers are done overwhelmingly by white male Christians. Your sort of comment is way out of context and is based on the hype from right-wing outlets whether you want to admit it or not. So, with the mass murderers by white male Christians at the Planned Parenthood clinic, in Oklahoma City, of doctors at various abortion clinics, etc. are you doing any “soul searching” because we certainly do have that “problem”. “It’s there”…and it has been for a while and in greater numbers than radical Islamic attacks.
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A lot of folks think like that. I don’t. I see nothing like “organized religion” in ISIS. They’re just a bunch of criminals on a crime spree that use Islam as a cover. They are looting and pillaging like Mongols or Vikings. There was religious cover for those acts too but it was really just Bonnie and Clyde stuff.
Is Christ and His teachings really behind abortion clinic arson and murder? Is God really supportive of what’s going on in Gaza? No…its all crap.
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There two problems. With respect to Islamic focused terrorism, the root of most of the “problem” is that Saudi Arabia enables the funding of virulently anti-Western, frequently violent, messianic evangelism to Muslims everywhere in the world, priming people willing to co-exist with others to become uncompromising and for the worst of them to promote violence. No one wants to call Saudi Arabia what it is, a prime force in the fomenting of terrorists in many places in the world. But as far as domestic massacres go, any aggrieved, isolated, confused individual can blow away dozens of people if so inclined. That’s not a Muslim problem and it’s not liberals who need to search their souls to resolve it. This latest massacre appears to be a combination of both these forces, but people are not less dead because they are killed by aggrieved young men who are not Muslim and not grinding a particularly political or religious axe. And there is a lot more of that in the U.S. than examples of the San Bernardino massacre.
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Well at least they dropped off baby at granny’s before going full metal jihad 
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It’s crap people passionately believe in.
As the French say: “Cherchez la Femme”.
Groan…another “what about Clinton”…
Dude…we are not talking about PP or OKC. I am quite knowledgeable of them as well. But as for your “kool aid” platitude…I do not need to go to right wing sites to know what this article, on the Liberal leaning TPM just told me. It has and other Leftie sites as well…that as the investigation goes on it looks more and more like an act by a person that at least had mild sympathy with Radical Islam. Dear didn’t kill anyone in San Bernardino and Sayed didn’t kill anyone in Colorado so why conflate the two? In this case, the one we are talking about here…the subject of this comment thread…an American Muslim with ISIS sympathies just killed 14 Americans in America. That is a problem not ameliorated by a white guy killing other Americans. The 14 are still dead and you can itemize every killing by every White guy since the May Flower…and those 14 are still dead. And an America Muslim still killed them. And that Muslim still swore allegiance to ISIS.
I am not saying every American Muslim is a threat. Not even close. But this killing, sadly, makes the GOP’ers case that a threat exists and it is a serious one. Nothing of the magnitude they say for sure. But with MSM help this is going to really make a mess. What do you think CNN is going to do with this. Lets not even talk about FOX.
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The only negative for Fright-Wingers is the victims are government workers. So I’m sure some are conflicted a little since 14 gold-bricking statists is a good thing in their mind.
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I’ve never said we need to profile all Muslims nor am I stupid. What I said was…for the umpteenth time…the problem is real…probably small in scope…but real…and its going to get MAX play in the media and on the campaign trail. This could not have come at a more fortuitous time for the GOP’ers.
Drop all the “salifi” and “wahhabi” stuff. We know all that. Just visit Juan Cole’s site once a week and you’ve got it all down. But it doesn’t chance a damn thing in the USA. This was an American born Muslim problem. Just 1…only 1…but that’s all the proof the GOP’ers need.
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Do you think that’s how they are going to play it? No. “14 dead hard working Americans” is my guess.
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That said, of course, we certainly will be stupid about this and start profiling Muslims.
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