Discussion for article #233631
One should be very careful to note here that this system she was subjected to is royally FUCKED regardless of whether her accusations are true or not and that the analysis in no way requires taking her side or not with respect to whether she was raped. I donât know and I donât care whether she was actually raped or not or just believes she was or whateverâŚthat school needs to cut the shit because those hearing rules are blatantly designed to deter these kinds of accusations by letting the alleged victim know that, regardless of whether they were victimized by the accused, theyâre certainly going to be victimized by the process of bringing their accusations and seeking redress. Despicable.
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Rape is a serious felony and should be a police matter. College disciplinary committees are for academic violations, like plagiarism, not serious felonies. And of course at a trial the accusedâs attorney will have the right to cross-examine her, but under the control of a judge.
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The police should handle rape. However, that being said, many cases in which the police handle rape will not bring the kind of woman-centric approach that ârapeâ victims want. If itâs âhe-said-she-saidâ, itâs probably going nowhere. The main problem in the whole situation is that I believe (and I have heard that there is some evidence) there are serial rapists out there in college-land. The standard âeach case by itselfâ approach of law does not allow cops to take other cases into account. That means that many serial rapists get away with serial rape. The discussion in the article does not lead to the confident feeling that she has a case. If you donât fight back, you are not going to get a conviction. Rape is not something you figure out a couple hours later.
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The lawsuit also said that when Tubbs attempted to file a complaint with
campus police she was told she didnât have a case. An officer also told
her the district attorneyâs office would probably agree âbecause she
did not scream âNo,â or violently fight back.â
I was unaware that it was up to campus police to offer legal opinions or make determinations regarding prosecution. They must have to pay their security people a lot, what with them needing law degrees & all.
What the school did is appalling but none of it would have happened if the âofficerâ did his damn job & took the complaint.
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Like homicides and kidnapping, sexual assault is too serious a felony to be left to non professionals to investigate. Rape investigations are not solved by statements alone. Physical evidence needs to be gathered that would support one or the othersâ statements. Photos of injuries/bruises can show how these originated and support one or anotherâs statement(s). Sensitive expert questioners need to conduct witness/victim/alleged perp interviews. Only trained police investigators can do this.
The mere fact that a school would leave this investigation to a possible crime victim shows it does not take this crime seriously. No one so close to such a traumatic event should be put through this⌠And if the Campus police are not doing this than they are worthless as a police agency, too close to the institutionâs administration to do an independent neutral sleuthing.
Some seemingly tiny seeming detail could break such a case. For example, suspect says it wasnât him because heâs been home for âhoursâ, but the car he drove is very warm on the hood. Often when police confront him with this fact he changes his story, and this leads to further lies being exposed.
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Not quite. The evidentiary standard regarding âprior bad actsâ prevents you from trying to introduce prior bad acts of the accused simply to show he is of bad moral character or impugn him simply to suggest heâs a criminal at heart, not an upstanding citizen, and likely to have committed a crime. Thus, âyou were convicted in 8th grade of shoplifting, werenât you?â canât be used to prove someone was likely to have committed a particular assault and battery or tax fraud. However, you CAN introduce such evidence to show a pattern of behavior or modus operandi at work. Thus, if they had evidence that a series of sexual assaults fit a modus operandi and solid evidence that the accused committed one of them, they could likely use the conviction on the one to move towards convicting him for the others. It would be tough, because youâd always like to hang your case on more specific physical and other pieces of evidence, but âyou committed this unique crime, didnât you?â could certainly be used as evidence towards showing that the accused likely committed the other crime that fit the same unique characteristics. Problem is, âyou took the drunk chick home and slept with her while she was too drunk to know what she was dong and maybe even passed out, didnât you?â isnât exactly unique.
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They also sound illegal.
Rape is a felony and should be reported to the police. If colleges wish to become involved, they could pay for the processing of rape kits and offer counseling, but the reporting of the crime and the prosecution of that crime should be a matter for the police and the prosecutor.
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So what is the better system?
Thanks. IANAL, as you are doubtless aware. The pattern of bad acts is what is needed.
In fairness to SBU, they do make clear if he does it repeatedly, in front of witnesses, thereâs a chance theyâll reconvene the hearing process to reconsider if they might have been a tad hasty in reaching their original conclusion. Only a chance, tho; not a commitment.
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How about the school be required to report an alleged rape to the legal authorities, and let them decide whether or not there is a case to be made.
This is just common sense. The only confronting would be from the witness stand during trial, with any cross examination done by the defense attorney. Testifying is stressful enough, without the additional interaction between the two parties.
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These campus rape hearings are kangaroo courts, embarrassments, and constitutional travesties. Take the matter straight to the police. All the college brass care about is an outcome that does not tarnish the reputation of the institution and give potential donors pause. Rape is a serious crime, and the standard for a conviction should be proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not the preponderance of evidence that seems to be the campus standard.
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The story doesnât mention that âStony Brook Universityâ is actually part of the State University of New York system and is officially known as The State University of New York at Stony Brook. It;s not some backwoods school and I would think that a taxpayer supported, state system should be run a little bit better than to allow this type pf proceeding to take place. Where were the cops and local District Attorney? No one should have to put up with the shit the school inflicted on her. Bring in Gloria Allred to kick some ass.
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That is some effed up judicial system, Stony Brook. Not allowed to bring an advocate in with her?
Did no one on that judicial board think there was anything wrong?
This is the sort of thing parents of high school seniors might be interested in knowing about.
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Going straight to the city police department. NEVER take a rape allegation to campus security. Colleges and universities have a vested interest in suppressing sexual assault crime statistics, and campus security works for administrations, not for students.
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It is nothing close to a âjudicial systemâ. Itâs Play Court. By allowing that charade, the University, ie the State of New York failed her. The New York taxpayer should be made to pay. Big time.
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it seems that in every similar story I read the person either didnât want to go to the police or were told that the complaint would go nowhere as here.
My problem with this is that I donât buy that they would not make a police report for her.
So she went to this ENTIRELY SEPARATE system which is only supposed to be an intra-college community issue. Seriously, the biggest thing they can do is expel you. Everyone keeps mentioning that she should have gone to the police. Sure. That would have set in motion the regular process for investigation and possible indictment, trial etc.
The two systems are completely separate/parallel. The criminal justice system is supposed to deal with the crime of rape and its punishment. The internal school disciplinary system is supposed to deal with whether that person should be part of the school community or what they may need to do to remain part of that community.
Completely agree. If she did not submit a report or press charges, how can it become a police/stateâs attorney matter?