Discussion for article #227984
So one archdiocese gets one bishop who isnāt a completely horrible person, and suddenly the ārevolutionā has begun? Also, when did the face of the Catholic church get changed, exactly? When someone in the media said it did? As far as I can tell, the Roman church is still officially, theologically anti-gay, anti-woman and anti-birth-control, so that doesnāt really seem like much of a change to me.
The list of people who are willing to jump on the hyperbole bandwagon for this pope is long and impressive.
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As a mainline Protestant, I find the new Pope refreshing and Iām hopeful that dialogue will be raised. Enough of the scare tactics aligned with the GOP.
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Meanwhile the ideology progrom continues wreaking havoc in the Cincinnati diocese.
Teachers have lost jobs because they are gay, know a gay person or believe in choice due to this absurd anti American policy that continues under the rule of this āniceā Pope.
Put up or shut up, Frank.
In response to Weather Servo 9: Well of course the Church is retrograde. For those of us who are progressives but still more or less a part of it (for this reason or that), thereās a great deal to change and to wish for. But this pope is progress, this appointment is progress, and progress is what we want, right? Iām inherently skeptical of a lot of things too, and with regard to the church the past several decades have justified the skepticism, but allow us a ray of hope here. The ābandwagonā is lots of people getting their hopes up. Maybe the hopes will be dashed, but why race so fast to the dashing?
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The Church is a lot like the Baltimore Ravensā¦
You donāt do yourself any favors by insisting that you are incapable of understanding such obvious points.
Think about someone who would insist that he doesnāt see why everyone is making such a big deal of Rouhani replacing Ahmedinejad. Would that be someone whoās really thinking deeply about the question, and looking closely at the situation? Or would that be someone who has a grudge against Iran, and is engaging in propaganda in order to prevent our ties from improving?
Hey, everyone, this guy doesnāt think any change has occurred by replacing Benedict with Francis! Please listen closely to what he has to say!
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Very well said, Bluebird. This is a change. It isnāt a huge change, it isnāt the be all end all but it is change. One step at a time. Nothing wrong with a little hope, we are strong enough to deal with a disappointment with out turning into cold cynics.
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I live in Chicago, in an area where peopleāeven nonCatholics-- routinely identify their location by parish (or more likely, by the nick-name of the parish. My favorite is when people say they live in āTommy Moreā). Iāve been RC in lots of places, but this is really incredible.
There are so many parishes (even with closings there are over 350 still, I think) that many are named after Junior Varsity Saints youāve never heard of and no one knows anything about.
Most parishes still have k-8 schools and there are tons of RC high schools. There are hospitals and colleges, and social agencies too. The RC church is a very big part of the infrastructure of this city, as it has been for a long time.
And I have to say, by and large, the quality of the clergy/religious is outstanding. Lots of smart men and women dedicated to social justice.
I hope Blase is a good bishop who keeps the good parts going and changes things that need changing. Most of all I hope he spreads Godās love in a city that needs it desperately.
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Hear, hear.
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Iād like to add that this piece by John Gehring, whatever you think of the Church and its relevance, is unusually well constructed and well written.
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Maybe the hopes will be dashed, but why race so fast to the dashing?
When Jonah Goldberg rushes to write a piece insisting that President Rouhani is no different at all from President Ahmedinejad, and all the people speaking positively about him as a breath of fresh air are just deluded, do we need to ask why heās so fast to dash peopleās hope?
Because heās decided that Iran is his enemy, and heās engaging in propaganda intended to keep people on a war footing against it. Heās afraid that people that he wants to be on the attack will cease to do so, and support a more amicable relationship.
Same thing here.
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Can you hear Bill Donohue gnashing his teeth?
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Can you hear Bill Donohue gnashing his teeth?
Heh heh heh.
I have spent my entire adult life watching conservative Catholics use the political messaging coming out of Rome as a cudgel to silence and weaken the liberal Catholic majority.
And now they canāt do that anymore.
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A revitalized Catholic voice in public life just might also help jumpstart a better political debate in Washington.
No. The faithful among us have had their shot, now itās time to move on. We need people who ground their thinking securely in reality, not some freakinā made-up sky-overlord.
Make no mistake - The Pope sees the writing on the wall - America is getting less and less religious, and between the sex scandals forcing sales of diocese property and the closing of churches due to lack of attendance, all churches are going to be facing a tipping point where their own little brand of āIām better than you 'cause Iām so piousā isnāt going to sell. These shysters want to continue to control Americaās social policy while not paying taxes and openly flouting our laws in the name of āBeliefā.
Weāre already tired of the built-in racism, sexism and child abuseā¦Now itās time to face up to the lie that is god.
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Never let a chance go by to push your own agenda.
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Your rabid atheism is not just a worthless contribution to the common dialogue, it is actively destructive of any such dialogue occurring, and is indistinguishable from the rabid christianists in that regard.
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Wow look at all this tolerance. Talk that way around Francis and heād kick you in the nuts.
In a loving, spirtual and affirmative way of course.
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I still want to know: Why does the Catholic Church, alone among ALL Religious Bureaucracies, enjoy āDiplomatic Immunityā and the Vatican is considered a āSovereign STATEā?
(yes, I do know the history of the Churches power in Europe and statehood claims during the City-State era. Even though the Papacy spent more time based in Avignon, France than in Vatican City (created in 1929.)
Some people have a dualistic mindset. Everything important is a battle between right and wrong: my truth vs. your falsehood, my objective reality vs. your absurd superstitions, my god vs. your forces of darkness. Christian and other religious people are prone to this kind of dualism and the certainties that accompany it and so are their detractors. So, more and more, are political commentators in a media environment that has patience only for quick thrusts and rejoinders.
But (I apologize for preaching) we need to work at moving away from this habit of thinking, speaking, writing. Otherwise we donāt make any progress. Sooner or later we blow each other up.
Thereās a fiction out there that progress comes from the spirited contest between ultimate principles (justifying, for instance, support for Barry Goldwater or Ralph Nader). But it doesnāt work this way. Progress comes from sympathetic listening, meeting people halfway, accepting the probability that our adversaries are not mostly ill-intended fools, that they may have some things right, at least tolerably right for them. Right for them, tolerable for us, workable into a compromise.
Francisās appeal is that he seems to be trying to take the misdirected, hard-edged Catholic Church of the last 35 years toward a place where listening, depth of conversation, and solutions are welcome. Others may be inspired to follow this example. This is why heās important.
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