Discussion for article #242847
Years ago my Econ prof argued that the Arabs would be a constant source of trouble in my lifetime because they simply do not have enough water. As I think about the ugly events in Paris and the 911 bombings, this is about all I can come up with. These people are thirsty.
That headline scared the merde out of me - at first glance I thought it said 129,352.
For a relatively small price, France is being drawn into a no-win war with ISIS. I donāt have any answers, but the ripples from this will continue for years. Just like the US after Sept 11 - except we were thrown into the wrong place against the wrong target and led by the wrong people. Hereās hoping that France, and by extension the Western world, can find a way to take these bastards on without creating new enemies or destroying that which distinguishes us from them.
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ISIS may think they scored a victory. But I think that they have angered more than just the French. By themselves angering the French would be bad enough. This will come back, eventually, to bite ISIS in the ass.
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You know a storyās important when MSNBC preempts Prison Porn for Chunk Toad and a smattering of unknown Rethugs to trot out the old vacuum of leadership, boots on the ground recourse of the truly cluelessā¦
Itās often said that no one detests war like a person who has fought in one. I resemble this.
However this is beginning to feel much like WWIII and the sooner the nations of this world come together to fight Islamic terrorists the better.
Along with rooting them out in Syria, Libya and Iraq pressure needs to be put on our āgood friendsā and habitually absent allies the Saudis to abandon their form of tribal rule and redefine how they allocate that countryās wealth. The outmoded tribal nature of middle eastern governance is the root cause of daesh, Al-Qaeda and other groups. And all the while the house of Saud continues to quietly support the notion that infidels are the reason that young Muslims have no hope in this life.
Having said this Iāll also say my heart aches not just for Paris and the French but for all humanity right now. America cannot and should not have to undertake this on our own. Granted, weāve played the largest role in opening up this Pandoraās box but the time for laying blame has now passed.
Ignorance is a difficult thing to roll back. Itās going to take the nations of the world acting in concert to have a chance at this.
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The saudis have been actively, expensively promoting their fundamentalist interpretation of islam for many years now and thereās a direct link from that to the rise of jihadism around the world. Is it finally time to call them to account for that?
Can this be construed as an attack on a NATO member state? And if so, what shape might the response take? ISIS does after all have a āstateā of a sort, territory and resources that they control, so theyāre not just stateless actors like al Qaeda. They may have bitten off more than they can chew.
france isnāt a member of NATO, they dropped out decades ago.
What we are getting from the GOP is āBomb 'em back to the stone ageā. How does one bomb an idea? Certainly not the way Trump thinks.
I have friends in France. This hurts. They donāt live in Paris but nonetheless I have a warm spot for that city. I hope to visit again next summer.
as I was reading/watching/listening to the news last night, I kept thinking that this reminded me of a similar event, almost 50 years ago, the Tet Offensive in Vietnam. in jan. 1968, approx. 150,000 combined NVA/VC troops, with tanks, artillery, etc., launched coordinated attacks on some 30 cities around South Vietnam. this included the then capital of Saigon. as well, they briefly took control of the US Embassy building, before being (relatively) quickly blasted out.
as a military operation, the Tet Offensive was a complete, utter disaster for North Vietnam, tens of thousands of their troops were killed/wounded/taken prisoner. it pretty much destroyed the Viet Cong as any kind of effective fighting force. along with the massive casualties, they lost hundreds of tanks, etc. again, an utter military disaster.
from a PR standpoint, Tet was a huge victory for the North. it showed just how poor all of our intelligence services were, that the movement of huge numbers of troops, tanks, etc. could take place, without anyone in the South being aware of it.
ISIS sees the same thing in the Paris attacks (assuming it actually was an ISIS operation). they ultimately caused not that much damage, but they showed the world (and, more importantly, potential recruits) how poor the westās intelligence gathering is, that everyone, in France, the rest of Europe, and the US completely missed this as it was being planned.
this isnāt comforting to me.
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until they actually rejoin, they still arenāt a member, and donāt have the protections of the alliance. but thatās just a technicality, I suppose. itās not like weāre going to let them fend for themselves, should they need our help. I didnāt see this however, when was it published?
2009
France withdrew from the integrated military command in 1966 to pursue an independent defense system but returned to full participation on 3 April 2009.
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I realize this is a bit off topic but what you are saying is not entirely true. I was at a Marine outpost, Con Thien, before and during Tet. The outpost was really an overgrown observation post on the DMZ. We knew they were infiltrating troops in large number across (they attempted once to infiltrate a large column across during a heavy morning ground fog, it lifted and they were shot to pieces). What the intel did not know is what their intentions were, and I suspect read the intel incorrectly (being just a snuffy, I was hardly in the loop).
But back on topic the numbers are simply overwhelming in the murder of innocents in Paris. Makes for a very sad day.
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What I find truly unnerving about ISIS is that Iām not sure they have a coherent plan for āwinningā ā if thatās what they think the outcome will be. Are they capable of governing anything? Are the leaders even capable of controlling the fighters? It seems that once the orgy of blood, rapes and looting is done, theyāll simply turn on each other.
Bombing will only fatten the pockets of the munitions manufacturers and little else.
Putting an end to vermin like daesh will require multi-modal and multi-dimensional tactics. And the combined concentrated will of the free world. Might even involve effort from retired old guys like me.
Every option should be on the table.
Their āwinā is making the free world live in fear of them. I donāt think they have an end game other than instilling fear and disrupting the lives of others. Thatās the kind of power that those who are disenfranchised aspire to.
They care nothing for this governing thing.
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Your professor will be proved correct, if not yet by the current situation in Iraq/Syria. Regional population continues to grow and grow younger, a volatile situation. (Think of the higher Israeli birth rates in the settlements vs. in the green-line, and corresponding Palestinian birth rates, as a microcosm of the Middle East.) Unpreventable global temperature rise will disrupt regional rain patterns, thus decreasing food production as well as water availability. (Israel threatened war upon Lebanon in 1990s, if Lebanon diverted additional water from the Jordan River basin, as international treaty allowed them to do. Think of prevalent conditions in 2020s-30s with more people and less rainfall!) The conflicts over resources and consequent climate-refugee numbers will be truly existential, not merely rhetorically ideological, and the population displacement will be world wide.
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The DeGaulle of them to do so!