Discussion for article #242840
There is a lot I feel like saying because I’m angry. Very angry. Instead, I’m just going to keep a good thought about the victims and the people of Paris and France and all civilized people in the world.
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Prayer for those folks impacted by this in Paris. Words really can’t express the horror of something like this happening.
ISIL will absolutely regret having done this.
And I do realize this is petty, but I will admit to being relieved a major terrorist attack did not happen in US soil. I’m kind of worn out with the US having to take the lead and fight all of the World’s battles. We have neither the will nor the desire to continue being the world’s policeman nor its security force… or its security blanket. Everyone should be putting some skin in the game protecting liberty and freedom for all of us.
(And I do realize it sounds weird using the words “liberty and freedom” after how cliched they sound nowadays when they’ve been used by GOP/TPers for the past decade for everything from bashing homosexuals, to ramming their religion down our throats, to blaming 100% of all Muslims for the acts of their total crazies that terrorize all Muslims as well, to wiping their rear ends in the bathroom).
It’s moments like this that remind you that regardless of what you see when you look out your window, the world still remains a pretty f’d up place for a lot of folk. It also gives you greater appreciation for the fact that you can look out your window on a daily basis and ignore that all of that f’d up crap is going on out there without impacting your morning coffee, your daily run, your visit to your mom’s, your tailgating party, or your weekend TWD marathon viewing session. Lets be grateful we have our families and loved ones with us, and are able to live life free from the tyranny of lunatics out there. Be they the murderous type Muslims have to deal with on a daily basis, or the religious/conservative types we have to deal with on a daily basis… which lets be quite frank, are not as bad as the murderous types.
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Simplified, and ideologies be damned-- there are three classes of people.
Those who value lives.
Those who value profit over lives.
Those who feel lives have no value.
The difficult position in times such as this is the first.
To maintain the sensibility and compassion that morally separates one from the other two (and yes, by degree).
A struggle constant and unrelenting; left to we as individuals to buttress against the urge to join the ranks of those who have given in or given up.
Anger now is rightful for those who have lost tangibly in these attacks.
But not justified for others, by extension, in the form of outrage to foment vengeance.
Calm and considered measures from those who lead need be the order of the day.
Not relenting to hysteria. Not compromising values.
The world should be thankful for the leadership and seeming restraint in the aftermath of yesterday’s events.
May it continue-- despite the calls for reciprocal violence-- by those whose values differ.
jw1
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[ Reported ISIL statement: “The scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they
partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our
Prophet.”]
The sad, sick, perverse and never ending saga of people killing each other mercilessly and with glee to see, to demonstrate, who’s got the best imaginary friend and the strongest cult.
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I’ve been to France many times and I have friends there who are in my thoughts tho they don’t live in Paris. The French don’t deserve this. They are good people. I know this from personal experience.
My heart goes out to the whole country.
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This is an awful twofer for ISIL. In addition to their hit on “the West”, life will be even harder for the refugees fleeing their homes and ISIL because of backlash in Europe.
It’s hard to set yourself up as an ideal when the people that left are doing so much better then the people that stayed. They are sure trying to make sure that won’t happen, aren’t they?
This sucks all around.
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Not just refugees. The backlash will inevitably target all Muslims. Which is kind of their aim. They are trying to evoke a religious war of Islam vs. West, and desire to drag every Muslim into it one way or another.
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Yes, and like most religious fanatics there is nothing they hate more than an apostate.
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After thinking about victims and families, my thoughts turned to barbarism and barbarians. Because that is truly what we are facing…barbarians.
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We have a lot of folks on our side who are more than willing to go down that route. Not because it makes sense, but because of religion. I do believe they feel threatened by any religion other than their own.
My own parents (Fox News junkies) are convinced that the US should go on genocidal war against Islam. Not against terrorist or terrorist organizations like ISIL. Against an entire religion with 1.6 BILLION adherents. That’s almost 25% of the entire world’s population. It’s certifiably insane to even remotely think that’s a solution to anything, or an appropriate proportional response to the very small minority of crazies among those 1.6 Billion. That’s like saying all Christians should be killed because of the actions of some crazy freaks over in who-knows-where. It’s absolutely nuts. And the sad and scary part is that they’re definitely not alone in that sentiment.
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Fine if Hollande actually has evidence that it is ISIS.
It smelled, and smells, more like Al Qaeda to me.
ISIS theology, strategy and practice is to draw militiants in to their territory, to expand the Califate. No doubt lotsa angry young men, born in France of Algerian and other North African descent, livingwithout hope in the dehumanizing HLM slums of north Paris and the suburbs beyond (like St Denis, where the football stadium is) have heard the call and taken up arms in Syria.
As their older siblings did a couple of decades ago, to join Jihad in Chechnya. Where they were recruited by Al Qaeda for terrorist acts. AQ remains strong across North Africa, and it had no immediate Califate objective. Rather, the Al Qaeda strategy was to strike the Great Satan wherever it was.
From an intelligence perspective, distinguishing between ISIS and AQ is very valuable. It would be a tmistake to pour fuel onto the ISIS fire while AQ is sneaking around planning more atrocities Over Here.
The Squealer-choir chants “fight them over there so they don’t kill us over here.” This could well be a classic and deadly case of eyes-off-the-ball.
I was at dinner last night with my parents when all of this was breaking out. An older couple, obviously rabid Fox watchers chimed in with their solution…we should go bomb Paris, probably all of France.
So yeah, it doesn’t take a lot to get the crazies up for doing something insane.
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We must never lose sight of one fact: the whole purpose of terrorism is to provoke a violent reaction.
A good time to reread this very prescient piece from 2004: Terrorist Strategy 101 - a quiz
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Since I haven’t seen much mention of it, these attacks were very similar to the Mumbai crisis in '08:
If ISIS/ISIL is proven to be the organizer behind this, perhaps this will be their “9-11”, that is to say, their greatest outrage that also leads to a response that cripples them.
Remember 9-11 meant the end of Al Qaeda as an effective international terror organization - they lost their safe base in Afghanistan (essential to maintain a large active network), bin Laden had to disappear, and no further major plots were ever hatched.
Taking out ISIS/ISIL is a straightforward military operation - expensive as these things always are, but militarily they are not a formidable force, any real army could take them down in short order. They are wildly unpopular everywhere their rule extends, they are occupiers and the occupied want them gone.
This should be a NATO operation, the attack being on a NATO member, and Turkey is perfectly placed to stage the operation from. If the Islamic world wants to contribute to the cause, great, but they are not needed. The lack of any interest by the Arab world in doing anything to clean up their own backyard, despite vast oil wealth and powerful militaries suggests they will do nothing though.
I actually doubt this will happen. But if it did, then the end-game would be interesting. A self-governing entity would need to be set in the Sunni areas controlled by ISIS, i.e. a new Sunni state carved out of the former Iraq. The lack of any government willing to defend the Sunnis (like the Shiite government in southern Iraq) is the root to all this evil.
The Kurds could have a big role to play, and then maybe Kurdistan will get the recognition it already deserves as a successful independent state.
“There’s no fool like an old fool.”
~Proverb
Older Foxers will never realize the dupes they’ve been.
jw1
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Turkey has been the seeming conduit to Syria for IS cells to obtain training.
Turkey has been reluctant to being a springboard for NATO/coalition operations since the first Gulf War.
Don’t see them as wanting to be the next and very convenient IS focus.
jw1
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While the Paris terror attack is the focus of global attention, I’m still a bit surprised, within the 24 hour coverage context, how little attention the liberation of Sinjar and the details of the Mohammed Emwazi hit are getting. Indeed, CBS This Morning Saturday, tagged their 8am half hour with details of these events within a bizarre political context that highlighted understandable but misplaced Emwazi victim (James Foley) family reactions over any suggestion of operational success and, of course, implied US presidential weakness.
I’m interested in the psyop value contained in this CNN graph:
The United States had been tracking Emwazi closely since Wednesday, and he was seen leaving a building and getting into a car Thursday, U.S. officials said. Three drones went after that vehicle, which also had another person inside, and two Hellfire missiles were fired.
And this in The Guardian:
Information about the reported killing and Emwazi’s high profile suggest he was under extremely tight surveillance that is likely to have combined sophisticated technical means and human intelligence. That suggests whatever can be heard or seen remotely by US or allied intelligence can be supplemented by visual or other observations from an agent in the area.
The Foleys might not be happy with the relatively quick if sizzling manner of death but stalked for days by 3 drones and Brit and US ground teams had to be a kind of torture for the ISIL celebrity and another largely unappreciated success for Mr. Obama’s up close and personal battle space tactics.
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