Discussion for article #225662
Israel’s goal is a single-state solution through genocide. This will allow them to set up more settlements (or “living space”). Their very own Lebensraum.
Ironic.
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I’m sure it’s okay. When the chickens once again come home to roost, it’ll be New York City that will take the brunt of it.
yes, genocide–I mean, they’ve killed slightly more than a thousand people.
What I think is funny about this is how people are going on about Israeli “genocide.” How many Arabs do you think have been killed in Iraq and Syria in the last 3 weeks?
As for Lebensraum, you have it backwards. Israel left Gaza, and the government has no interest in putting settlements back there.
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What a bunch of crap.
You think 1,000 Palestinians is the total number Israel has killed during its occupation over the past 50 years? Get out of here.
And you know you’re argument is PATHETIC when you are trying to make your defense “But Israel isn’t as bad as ISIS.”
This is what Israel (and its defenders) are left arguing.
Israel’s moral defeat will haunt us for years
Slightly more than a thousand people you say? Well, not according to the IDF. The IDF hasn’t confirmed that any Palestinians have been killed. Who’s side are you on?
JPost:
“Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman made clear Tuesday that Israel intended to refrain from taking a firm position on the Ukrainian crisis,”
What a fucking ally!!!
And notice how I mentioned “settlements” and you really didn’t have a coherent response other than to say “Israel pulled out of Gaza.”
First off, that’s bullshit. While they pulled their forces out, they’ve spent the last 50 controlling what comes in and out of there, and restricting the movement of the people.
Now, please tell us why you refuse to criticize Israel over the settlements?
No, 1000 is not the number of Palestinians Israel has killed in the West Bank and Gaza since 1967. So let’s play a game–why don’t you come up with that number, and we’ll see how many Palestinians israel has killed in over 50 years of “genocide?”
We can also look at what the demographics of those regions since the “genocide” began, and the infant mortality and life expectancy of those areas since the “genocide” began.
Ball’s in your court, if you want to charge Israel with genocide, you should probably have at least some statistics to support that.
And I’m not defending Israel by saying it isn’t as bad as ISIS. My point is simply that for a lot people, concern for Arab lives seems to end once they cross the Jordan.
It was a coherent response because you seemed to specifically be accusing Israel of wanting to build settlements in Gaza, which, of course, they don’t. I know that, because they had settlements, and they took them out.
And who refuses to criticize Israel over settlements? Not me. I supported Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, and I think Israel should prevent the construction of further settlements in the west bank and tear down a lot of those that have already been constructed. Not sure whose positions you’re arguing with, but they aren’t mine.
Umm, it is generally not the attacker who confirms who has been killed, because how could they? If Israel hits a building, they can confirm that they hit a building, they can’t confirm who was in the building. That is generally the task of the recipient of the attack. Same reason why it is Israel, and not Hamas, that confirms how many Israelis have been killed.
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ISRAEL’S CENTRAL BUREAU of STATISTICS:
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"Central Bureau of Statistics reports that Jewish births are up both by numbers and percentages, while the birth rate in the Muslim Arab sector has reached an all-time low.
The year 2013 saw the number of births among Israeli Arabs drop from 40,433 in 2012 to 39,028 – a decline of 3.5%. The Muslim Arab sector in particular saw a sharper drop-off of 5.5%, with 34,766 births compared to 36,766 in 2012. Arab Christian women gave birth to 2,602 babies, and Druze women had 2,350.
The numbers also show that the Jewish birth rate is rising, while the Israeli Arab birth rate is declining consistently. An average of 21 out of every 1,000 Jewish women gave birth in 2013, compared to 18.3 per 1,000 in the year 2000. The average birth rate among Arab women, in contrast, fell to its lowest point ever: 24.8 per 1,000, compared to a peak of 35 births per 1,000 women in 2000."
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=15997
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You were saying? Now what? I don’t expect a coherent response.
Please read carefully. I am not speaking about birth rates in Israel. You are speaking about Israeli Arab birth rates. As a rule, birth rates decline as the middle class grows, religious tradition declines, access to birth control improves, etc. etc. Apparently, what’s going in in Israel is mirroring a trend of declining Arab birthrates in the region: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Israels-fast-evolving-demography-320574
The questions I asked had to do with the infant mortality (how many babies die, not are born) and overall life expectancy in the West Bank and Gaza. Those are the occupied territories, Israeli Arabs are citizens.
Perhaps I was insufficiently coherent in my previous post, so I’ll take the blame, but you didn’t provide any detail on the actual question.
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Again, you took offense to my use of “genocide.” I posted Israel’s own data showing Palestinians birth rate is down by 33% over the past decade and, because of that, the Israeli press is proclaiming that Israel may not face the demographic change that threatens to make the Jews a minority.
But, now you are trying to separate Palestinians living in Gaza vs Palestinians living in “greater Israel” in an argument about the genocide of the Palestinian people?
Haha. Soon you’ll be narrowing it down to Palestinians living on specific streets.
Do you really not know anything about Israel and Israeli history? You showed me nothing about “Palestinians.” Please read the article you sent posted. It is about Israeli Arabs.
In 1948, Israel was established, and by 1949, the borders established. The Arabs living in those borders became Israeli citizens. They vote, they serve in the Knesset, there is discrimination, but they and their descendants are citizens of Israel. About 20 percent of Israel’s citizens are Arabs.
In 1967, Israel captured the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem. Jerusalem was annexed, and the Arabs living there were offered citizenship. The West Bank and Gaza are the occupied territories, and that’s where the Palestinians live. They are not legally part of Israel, they are not Israeli citizens.
What you posted was demographic statistics about the state of Israel. It has absolutely nothing to do with the West Bank and Gaza. It’s remarkable that you would be arguing here, when you don’t even seem to know the most rudimentary facts about the region.
You posted an article based on Israeli census data, about Israel, and about Israeli citizens, Jewish and Muslim and Christian. Nowhere in that document is there a mention of Palestinians or the West Bank or Gaza.
Moreover, “birth rate” is not “infant mortality rate.” Almost all industrialized societies see their birth rate decline. Women have fewer kids, because they get jobs, go to school, use birth control, want to provide more for the kids they have–it’s a global phenomenon. By the standard of declining birth rate, pretty much every european society has been undergoing genocide since the industrial revolution began.
Here–you might want to read this wikipedia article about Israeli Arab citizens so you have at least some idea as to what you’re pontificating about with such authority:
“Central Bureau of Statistics reports that Jewish births are up both by numbers and percentages, while the birth rate in the Muslim Arab sector has reached an all-time low.”
–Isreal
Keep sticking your fingers in your ears, and pretend it didn’t happen.
Do you really not understand basic English?
- this does not involve the west bank and gaza–it involves Arab citizens of Israel
- Declining birthrate is not a sign of genocide–by that standard, Germany is experience genocide, because their birth rate is also at an all time low–http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1991216,00.html
The holocaust wasn’t a genocide because Jews had fewer babies, but because people killed the babies they had
- Even as far as Israel goes, the Israeli Arab population is still growing IN fact, it is stil growing a t a faster rate than the Jewish population. So even with the completely irrelevant statistics you cited, by your standards, Jews in Israel are suffering from more of a genocide than Israeli Arabs, since they still have a lower birthrate:
But this is fun, let’s keep this up. I’ll try it slowly–do you know the difference between Israel, and the Occupied Territories?
I’m also interested to see if ultimately any of your ideological peers here will come to your defense, or if they’ll have enough intellectual honesty to have an intervention
[quote=“uberjude, post:4, topic:7640, full:true”]
yes, genocide–I mean, they’ve killed slightly more than a thousand people.
What I think is funny about this is how people are going on about Israeli “genocide.” How many Arabs do you think have been killed in Iraq and Syria in the last 3 weeks?
As for Lebensraum, you have it backwards. Israel left Gaza, and the government has no interest in putting settlements back there.
[/quote] Nice try.
Except it all falls apart when one realizes that wiping out all Gazans and reclaiming the land for jews to occupy/live on is their stated goal here:
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