Discussion for article #224129
Another of Bush’s messes to clean up.
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Yep. He’s the gift that keeps on giving. There’s no answer here. Lobbing missiles from carriers is going to do what exactly? I wish Obama would stick to what seems to be his gut instinct not to do something without actually knowing what the results you are aiming for are, but he seems to be the only one who thinks that, whole lotta headless chickens in D.C.
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On NO, he dint??
And he thought they hated him before!!
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Hello, Vietnam.
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Replace “inclusive agenda” with “iron fist” and the President would be 100% correct…
Every poll taken on the subject in 2002 and 2003 showed a majority of Americans across political divisions were in favor of the invasion, even and despite the also historically large anti-war protests happening at the same time. I was in the minority of people at the time who were against this invasion. The corporate media, the NYT, even leaders of the Democratic party, used all their free time to constantly remind me of just how in the minority I was - how un-American and sissified and truly “Saddam-loving” I must be.
Mr. Bush was the Commander-In-Chief, and does bear political and moral responsibility for the failures in Iraq, but he couldn’t have gotten the invasion off the ground if the majority of Americans didn’t want it and the Democratic leaders - who voted for Afghanistan, then the Patriot Act, then Iraq - didn’t support it.
Average Americans in 2003 were still post-9/11 bloodthirsty. Mr Bush took advantage of that, and the national Democrats bowed to it for extremely short-term political gain. All of humanity will be paying the price for their shortsightedness for decades or perhaps even centuries to come. Millions of people already have.
That was one of the creepiest, most witch-hunt-like times I’ve ever lived through. That being said, Bush gets the rap, because thats where the buck stops.
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I’m glad for two things today…
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That I watched that press conference for myself because there are a lot of people cherry picking bits and pieces to fit their own agenda.
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That Barack Obama is President right now and not Mitt Romney or God forbid John McCain.
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Not one mention of the word Republican in your post, WeatherServo9. Not one.
You did everything but say this (Iraq invasion) was the Democrats’ fault. But, you know how ridiculous that would be, so you dance around it. It is a fallacy to even intimate it.
In the House:
Republican - 215-6
Democratic - 82-126
In the Senate:
Republican - 48-1
Democratic - 29-21
So, overall Republicans voted for the use of force 263-7, while Democrats voted against the use of force 147-111.
Put another way:
Congressional Republicans: 97% in favor
Congressional Democrats: 57% opposed
Now look at the comment you just posted and tell me it’s a fair representation of what happened at the time.
Credit to reggid and C.Foxx for the numbers.
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No, no, no. A million times no. We’ve got to stop meddling in Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world. It’s up to the Shia and the Kurds to defend themselves now against the Sunni.
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If you bothered to watch that press conference that’s what the man said.
Edit to add:
“there’s no military solution inside of Iraq. Certainly not one led by the US”
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Not even close. The Vietnamese came to be united, for good or ill, under a secular ideology. The disintegration of Iraq is the culmination of 80 years of the false history of a made-up, inorganic state with zero unifying principles but two primary competing religious sects that have been at odds to one degree or another for centuries.
Like the Russian (and Russian “culture” as Putin sees it), I’m convinced that Muslim cultures are completely ill-suited to what is understood to be modern civil society and popularly elected representative democracy, particularly in the ME and S and C Asia - too sectarian, too tribal.
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“Leaders of the Democratic party”? You mean like Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy?
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While this is true, by the summer of 2004, it was common knowledge that the country had been lied into war. So, if we as a nation do not bear collective guilt for this and not merely our overwhelmingly below-average elected representatives, why did the country re-elect the lying piece of human garbage that was ultimately responsible for what is easily the most shameful and criminal political and military blunder in our nation’s history?
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It was common knowledge . . . Well yes to the folks paying attention, most were not.
The ultimate point of my comment was that Iraq isn’t simply Mr. Bush’s fault, it’s the fault of everyone in America, especially everyone who was in favor of it at the time. This includes, in every poll, a majority of people - a majority of Democrats and a majority of Republicans. If Mr. Bush hadn’t had that comfortable cushion of support, he’d have had to have been much more careful in Iraq, or he might not have even gone in at all.
http://www.cfr.org/iraq/most-americans-support-war-iraq-shows-new-pewcfr-poll---commentary-lee-feinstein/p5051
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-16-poll-iraq_x.htm
But to specifically address the Democratic party leadership: John Kerry (the 2004 Presidential candidate) voted in favor of the Iraq resolution, as did Joe Biden (then Chair of the Foreign Relations Committee), as did Harry Reid (then assistant majority leader). Both Bill and Hillary Clinton were in favor of it. Those Congressional Democrats who voted against it were bucking the leadership of their own party. Good for them. Al Gore said some critical things, and good for him, though he was mostly in favor of some kind of military intervention. Mr. Obama was a critic during the 2008 Presidential campaign season, but by that time the polls had shifted and a majority of Americans thought Iraq had been a mistake. So he was just riding the wave of popular opinion, as John Kerry had tried to in the opposite way in 2004.
At no point do I blame the Democratic party solely for Iraq. I blame all Americans. This is our country, and we ran it really poorly after 9/11. We were bloodthirsty and shortsighted, and the leadership of the Democratic party went along with the leadership of the Republican party to make one big mistake after another. And those Democrats are still in power. Lucky Mr. Obama gets a pass because he wasn’t around for the Iraq vote, but Al Gore is done, Howard Dean is out of the national spotlight, Dennis Kucinich - do I need to say anything more? - all of the strongly anti-Iraq Dems are out of leadership positions. But Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Harry Reid still are, with Mrs. Clinton poised to be the next President.
What does that remind you of? John McCain and pretty much every Republican who was ever wrong about anything is still in power in their party, too.
Your confusion about my intent probably rests upon the fact that I hold the Democrats to a higher standard. The Republicans are neanderthals, most of the Democrats aren’t (well, there is that one guy in Montana…). The mess in Iraq is not solely the fault of the Democrats, but the party leadership should have acted in the interests of their country and not their own political gain.
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Sorry, I voted for Gore and was among those who knew Iraq was a colossal cluster-fuck to be kept out of at all costs long before we went there. I don’t accept your overreaching description anymore than I accept responsibility for those duck-dienasty idiots. You’re just wrong. It was some peoples fault for sure, but saying it was everybody’s fault is a standard political way of deflecting the blame from those that actually deserve it. I’m beginning to think that is your intention.
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Agreed. Bill Maher, Dixie Chicks vilification, ugly indeed, but luckily it didn’t escalate to previous levels seen during WWII or the McCarthy era.
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Bullshit. I not only voted for Gore, but protested the war before it began saying it was bound to be an unmitigated disaster. It’s also why I supported candidate Barack Obama because he too opposed the Iraq invasion.
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