Was Nads Nadler speaking about impeachment of Barr or Chump? I say start with Barr. That is far less politically fraught, will probably work, and will neuter Chumps AG more than Sessions was.
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I knew that the Nancy and her minions would start to say that âit is too close to the election to impeachâ at some point, but I did not think it would be until at least this November, and they would just keep slow-walking until then.
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I can see your point(s). But I also feel like if ever there were a case where a president should be impeached, this is it. I almost feel like theyâre shirking their duty if they donât. The Senate republicans would have to own the acquittal at the ballot box. Thereâs just so few wholly satisfying answers to all of this. Sigh.
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I am not trying to argue but I think I will be saying this a lot.
All the calls for âThe Full Reportâ are not going to be as helpful. I donât think what is redacted is going to be enough to shift the battle. Mueller whiffed on most of the big ticket items, I donât believe what is in the weeds is as important as what else we do going forward.
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All that Barr has accomplished is making himself look like an idiot. Which he is
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Here is your answer:
Trump was Nancyâs ticket to the Speakership. He is her biggest fundraising tool ever, and she isnât about to give that up. She has never won the Speakership under a Democratic President.
She doesnât care about whether or not the President broke the law. She never has. She clearly doesnât care about what Democratic voters want. She cares only about her personal power. She is one of the most money-corrupted Speakers ever.
Follow the money.
Even if itâs an option, Iâm still ok with either Nadler or Hoyerâs pov (?).
Now Iâm saying ok, because Hoyer is relying on voters to take the lead and I might be wrong, but doing that led to this era.
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While my preference remains to impeach post-haste, itâs now appearing that the election will happen before than the impeachment process could conclude. Maybe it is better to keep up and expand the myriad investigative threads to paint as bad a picture as possible against the incumbent.
The fact is, Barr did his job well. If this report - even as redacted - was released without delay and obfuscation, it certainly would have had a greater impact on public opinion. As it is, any momentum towards impeachment has been, dare I say, obstructed.
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Iâm all in at this point. Time for some balls on the table. This cannot stand.
I would give it several days before jumping to a decision though. From a strategic standpoint, we really should wait to see how this is effecting public perception.
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Speaker Pelosi will not pull the impeachment trigger. The Mueller report simply doesnât give her the ammunition. It lacks that key word âcrime.â
For impeachment not to harm our chances in the 2020 election, it would be critical for Dems to be able to âsellâ impeachment to the American public. Without actual criminal charges, John Q. Public wonât understand all the subtleties that would be involved.
It doesnât matter that indictments may have been blocked due to an obscure DOJ policy about not indicting a sitting president, and it doesnât matter that Congress can make other judgments beside actual crimes about abuse of power. Thatâs too deep in the weeds to sell to the public at large.
Because it will go nowhere in the Senate, all an impeachment would do is allow Trump yet another way to claim that heâs been exonerated! Thatâs not how we win the election in 2020.
This doesnât mean investigations should cease, to continue putting pressure on Trump and keep him going batshit crazy by continuing to look over his shoulder at what might be coming in the future.
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Just that it should be crippled? Formal impeachment proceedings will give us access to shit Barr is trying to hide, particularly the grand jury materials. That needs to happen as quickly as possible now.
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I want the GOP Senators to be ON RECORD as opposing impeachment after what weâre seeing in this report. Every single one of them. My god, after all this? Forget the damn optics, the politics, the polling and everything else: this man is the most criminal âpresidentâ in history and theyâre not going to move to impeach because ⌠why? Itâs the damn principle!
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Thatâs the one good argument I can see for impeachment. But it would be a Pyrrhic victory, if all it does is allow Trump to claim another exoneration when the Senate fails to convict.
Right now, Iâm only looking at what gives us the best chance to win the 2020 Presidential election (and protect the House majority, and maybe pick up a few Senate seats).
For all the good arguments about what is the âright thing to doâ to protect our Democracy, it wonât matter if Trump is re-elected. Thatâs when the real nightmare era would start.
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You donât need to impeach TrumpâŚthe strategy should be to drag all of these witnesses in front of Congress, get them on the record, investigate the hell out of everything. Get Mueller up there to say why they made the decisions they did, and what they would do if it was not the president. Get Barr up there and roast him for his behaviorâŚcompare that to what any Democratic AG has been accused of and it will be clear how far out of line he is. Lay everything out, teach the American people how the Russians were involved and helped Trump win, and how he tried to obstruct the investigation. That will win voters, even without the impeachmentâŚthe Republicans themselves will drive away voters as they try to defend the indefensible. They already have shown they canât handle this with how the Cohen testimony went, give them more rope like that.
At the election, the facts will be out there, the Republicanâs defense of Trumpâs bad behavior will be out there, and it will hurt their election chances. Bigly. If an actual impeachment and trial is held, it wonât have as deep of an impact, and Republicans can just twist it even more into âDems hate Trump!â and use the sympathy of voters to hold on. Thatâs what happened to Walker in WI, and Clinton, the same will happen here. Impeachment is only going to work if the evidence is crystal clear and even the Republicans canât stand against itâŚthe people have to come along in order for impeachment to work, and weâre nowhere close to that. Maybe that changes with a deep investigation by Congress, maybe notâŚI doubt the Republicans in Congress are willing to impeach and convict Trump no matter what he did, they fear the base far too much and the base will never turn against Trump, they love it that he breaks the law.
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From what I am reading you donât even have to start the formal impeachment to shake the docs loose. Just ask for the records as a prelude or investigation into impeachment - for Barr and Chump
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Although I understand all the reasons against impeachment, what sort of precedent does this set for the future? I mean, letâs forget politics for a moment and think about the damn country and the future and the breaking and flouting of all laws, crimes, and consequences. It tells the world that he got away with all of it.
The other thing is, why doesnât Nancy et al craft a iron-clad cyber security election bill and send it to the Senate for them to veto? Not one finger has been lifted on this front.
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Thatâs an area Iâm not familiar with, but sure. If there is a way to use a preliminary proceeding short of actual impeachment, then that would be great and should start ASAP.
I do think itâs important though, to be careful about how this is sold to the public. To the extent possible, it should be done in a way that emphasizes normal Congressional oversight, and not too easily characterized as a fishing expedition, a witch hunt, or the other standard Republican talking points.
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What is wrong with these people?!!
Are they compromised too?!!
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Ya know, in the right light, Jerry Nadler looks a little like Peter Rodino.
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That is essentially what the Senate Watergate committee wasâan investigation, not specifically prelude to an impeachment proceeding, which came much later.
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