Discussion: Manchin Revives Call For Gun Checks: 'This Needs To Be Done'

Discussion for article #223754

Yes it does. Do I hold out any hope it will? No.

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I’ve never understood why background checks is so difficult to get into law. All you have to do is ask anyone who opposes checks why they favor felons having easy access to guns.

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Of course it needs to be done, but as John Stewart joked the other day, we have moved beyond doing anything to simple acceptance. Madmen could shoot 100 people a week every week and our government won’t act. They simply accept the NRA money.

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I don’t like Manchin but I’m glad he is at least trying to be slightly sensible on guns. He shouldn’t have introduced a watered down bill last time. We need real gun control, right now. NO EXCUSES!

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Then do it quickly while people, perhaps including the usual suspects, are still stunned!

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Maybe someone should explain to Manchin (D-WV) that background check worked as designed to prevent lunatics from obtaining more dangerous guns. Maybe he should concentrate his attention on a bill that will keep insane people from getting their hands on guns. Until that happens, all of this is blood on his hands and to those who refuse to accept reality.

Lol. Because you say it is? I don’t think you get to say that.

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The legislation existed in various forms over the years. It lost this time because of the GOP filibuster and the two jackasses shepherding the bill. They basically took it hostage to kill it.

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Sen. Manchin said “I’d like to see reasonable people come to reasonable decisions on a reasonable piece of legislation.”

That’s already been done. 55 Senators got together agreed on a reasonable piece of legislation to expand background checks.

But a minority prevented them from even voting for it. So it’s not that we can’t come up with a reasonable piece of legislation that a majority can agree on. It’s that the unreasonable minority is in control.

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You dare use the word insane?

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Only in the warped cesspool where you dwell.

What you have to look forward, and it is coming, is a gradual buildup of restrictions on firearms. First will be magazines, then we’ll ban military style weapons. After that anything semi-automatic goes. Further on down the road you are going to see laws similar to Australia’s become the norm.

Until this happens all this blood is on your and your ilks hands and to all of you who refuse to accept reality.

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Toomey and Manchin watered down the bill for the NRA with the ultimate aim to kill it if they could. Any other reasonable bipartisan duo could have passes the bill. The NRA selected these jackasses. I don’t give a damn about him either but his politics stinks on most issues.

Amen Sooner. This POS called Libs makes me puke.

He’s posting more and more derp these days and trying to hide behind TPM rules while creating a minor distraction here. I guess it must have gotten fired from it’s job sorting out recyclables down at the local sewage treatment plant.

I’ve replied to a couple of it’s posts but going back to just giving it a ZZzzzzzz if anything at all.

TPM rules ask that we reply as if the conversation was taking place in a coffee shop but it’s kinda hard to point, guffaw and slap my thighs at it in this venue.

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Anyone who questions Manchin’s resolve on this issue or his motivation seriously is talking out of their behind. He did not intend to kill the bill.
Knowing that the second amendment is held dear to some people he decided to propose common sense reforms that he thought everybody should get behind aka extend background checks to internet sales and gun shows. Nothing about that is watered down. It was an attempt at a bipartisan piece of legislation. As a result they got Kirk, Collins and McCain to support the bill.

He got a lot of shit from the NRA for his efforts, but i’m sure he’ll continue to fight for this. He’s clearly someone who wants to get stuff done (as evidenced by his frustration with the senate). I think this is the last we’ll hear from Toomey on this issue however.

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I agree he stinks on most issues. I do hope someone else creates the bill this time.

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You are a piece of shit.

How do you argue against finding out if a person is a criminal or a person’s mentally been adjudicated.

Well, just to play Devil’s advocate here: What difference does it make? The Holy Second Amendment says nothing about criminals or the mentally ill, meaning that they’re just as entitled to own an arsenal as anyone else.

And yes, the NRA says we should do something about the mentally ill. But I’m guessing that the minute you try to suggest that the mentally ill shouldn’t be able to buy weapons, they’ll pitch a fit.

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Unfortunately, Sooner, that’s not terribly likely at all.

First, a ban on high-capacity magazines is completely unfeasible - there’s already an incredible number of these things out there already, and they can be made with nothing more complicated than a spring, a piece of sheet metal, and some tin snips. Bonus points if you bother with a weld. Then you add in the impossibility of tracking millions of extant magazines w/no serial numbers, no identifying marks to say ‘this one didn’t get counted four times’… you might as well try to ban paper plates. I’m not saying I like the idea, but it’s like having a law requiring people not be stupid - if you can’t enforce the law (and you can’t), then there’s no point putting it on the books and committing budget and manpower to claiming you will.

Besides, it’s far more useful, as coldly pragmatic as that sounds, to have nothing on the books, and a sense of urgency, than an ineffective placebo that makes people feel like “the problem’s been addressed, give it a few years to work”.

Second, as 3D printing becomes more and more accessible, centralized control becomes less and less attainable. There’s just no way around that: we are moving into an age where technology continues to empower the individual. Functional firearms have already been made using 3D printing. The original one was something of a novelty item, sure, but at least one company out there is offering a fully 3D-printed M1911A1 semi-automatic pistol. It ain’t cheap, but it’s out there, and that genie isn’t likely to go back into the bottle any time soon.

Third, banning military-style weapons goes right back to the placebo that’s actually harmful, overall - just because an AR-15 is ‘tactical’ in appearance doesn’t make it any more effective a tool for killing than a Remington Model 750. The Assault Weapons Ban was a piece of feel-good legislation, but really, it used completely arbitrary metrics - how a gun looks? C’mon.

Banning semi-automatic weapons isn’t much of a fix, either - revolvers can be used as quickly as semi-automatic pistols, and pump-action rifles don’t have to be slow, either. Granted, you won’t see any bump-firing with pump- or bolt-action rifles, but bump-firing really hasn’t been seen in these crimes, anyway.

Sensible firearm laws would be a godsend. Unfortunately, until we address the gun culture itself, it’s not going to happen. And the real irony is, if we did that, if we addressed the problem of the pervasive culture of using guns to compensate for insecurity, or solving all our problems, if we as a nation pushed ourselves to actually behave like grown-ups again… so much of the need for new laws would melt away.

We infantilize ourselves (in the general sense, not anyone specifically here) - emulating childhood and adolescence sometimes into our 40s and 50s or beyond, now. And then we wonder why we don’t feel like we’re in control of our lives, why we feel like we lack agency. We push our entire culture to glorify and act like teenagers, and wonder why we never get past the mentality of high school - and why our society is starting to look seriously Lord of the Flies here. And the political and corporate apparatus out there doesn’t mind one bit - keep us chasing the popular kids around, following the trends, worrying about fads, and we’re easy as hell to control.

And of course, that becomes even more self-reinforcing when the people clawing their way up the ladder are products of the ‘Forever Young’ culture - the House of Representatives, even the Senate now, resemble nothing so much as petulant spats between cliques of schoolchildren.

I don’t know where the solution starts. I wish to god I did. But if we take much longer to find it… it won’t much matter to the survivors.

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