Discussion for article #232528
Pappy Boyington (he of Baa Baa Black Sheep fame) said, “Show me a hero and I’ll show you a bum.”
It’s only when we turn human beings into unqualified heroes that we make ourselves assholes.
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“Show me a hero, I’ll prove he’s a bum.” Greg Boyington
Wilmore is funny. Good for him.
In order to be good at anything, one has to be an asshole: just goes with the territory.
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Disagree most entirely. I see some people who are actually good at things who are not assholes. Not a lot, but enough to call bs on your assertion.
The movie depicts an idiot who cannot seem to get out of the way of his adopted propaganda in many ways, unlike the book. It basically gives cover for Nazi Germans.
The movie offers no hint that it is the US that is the invader, obliterating a culture that included christians and Jews, fer christ’s sake. Thanks you morons, GWBush and Co., the entire group that were assholes and were actually not good at anything, including security. (Asleep at the switch in many ways on 11Sep01)
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Well, at least Kyle is dead @bardi, so you can be happy about that. In the Westboro Baptist Church sense of happy.
Are you insufferable self-righteous types actually surprised to learn that there are snipers in the U.S. military? That there’s a whole genre of books about people who have fought and say things which are uncomfortable for the delicate sensibilities of latté liberals? Would the film only be acceptable if the main character said, “I realize we are are the invaders. We are the enemies of peace in the world.We are the terrorists.”
This is why liberals will NEVER connect with military personnel in a meaningful way: you’re all too busy calling them assholes, mindless killers, bloodthirsty murderers who “cannot seem to get out of…adopted propaganda”. (Unlikely that you read the book, but that’s your business.) You love military folks like Bradley, excuse me, Chelsea Manning because his stated reasons for leaking documents was prefaced by feelings consonant with yours about our Iraqi Expedition. I’ve accepted that none of you people (oh yes, I said it, “you people”!) will ever praise the military, but endlessly showing up to bury them gets a little tiresome.
I like war movies. I’ve probably seen them all. I saw Fury when it first opened. I liked Jarhead, another sniper movie, so much I read the book. In fact, it was Swofford’s book where I first learned the term “war porn”.
I just didn’t like Chris Kyle. I think he was a self promoting asshole. Does that make me unAmerican? Do I have to like Chris Kyle to prove I support the military?
Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder?
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You’ve done enough name calling for both of us in your post so I won’t add in any more. I also won’t tell you where to stuff that opinion, much as I’d like to.
There are some of us who are God damn tired of this issue because we’ve been pushing against it since day one. When W went to Iraq for reasons that were obviously false to anyone paying attention we tried to push back. I hate to resort to bumper sticker sayings but I even had one at the time that said “Support Our Troops - Bring them Home” that was on a magnetic ribbon.
I’m guessing you have no idea the weariness that some of us feel when we remember the lives lost and the damage done and how no one seems to even hear the constant drum beat to more war. I admit it, I have trouble watching war movies or reading war books because I’ve had enough of the death and destruction. I haven’t read this book or seen this movie. I probably will at some point.
The point of all this is that I know there are at least some of us who absolutely respect the military personnel that put their lives on the line for the rest of us. It just seems like so many people loudly profess support for the military and then go and throw their lives away in conflicts that are not worth it. I don’t want some kid in the army to die fighting over something that will in no way make the world a better place.
I’m probably rambling at this point, I tend to loose focus on this topic but it also seems like the same people are the ones that throw around quotes like give me liberty or give me death or don’t tread on me. The loud mouthed supporters really give me the impression that they are screaming so loud because deep down they are scared out of their wits at every little thing they see that isn’t exactly like them. I picked something up from here a while back. Don’t tread on me… Or I’ll piss my pants. That’s really what I hear when I hear people mindlessly saying support the military.
Yes I guess some of us may paint with too broad a brush as well. That’s easy to do when you’ve been worn down on a subject. I’m sorry if we’ve hurt your feelings.
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It’s extremely irritating what SonsofAres types end up peddling as “support” for the troops. According to his kind, the DFH’s don’t worship all soldiers; therefore, they’re against all soldiers, don’t understand what they’re going through, blah, blah, blah.
Chris Kyle was a genuinely bad person; I would go so far as to say sociopath. IN HIS OWN WORDS, he thought the Iraqis were savages and saw himself as some sort of savior. He was a serial embellisher of truth (yeah, I’m being generous here). It’s a rare day when I agree with former Gov. Jesse Ventura but he was absolutely justified taking Kyle to court. And winning.
Eastwood uses the movie to make a tenuous connection from 9/11 to Iraq in order to justify Kyle’s joining up and making him out to be a “patriot”. He could have chosen to make a different movie but Eastwood had an agenda and Kyle’s book satisfied that agenda. The RW are flocking to this movie because it confirms what they all know to be true: America is great and middle easterners are ungrateful assholes for our “liberation”.
Try to get a hold of the HBO mini series, Generation Kill and see a more realistic view of what was happening.
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It’s just more evidence of a very disquieting trend in this country. Speak out about members of the military that take a little too much relish in performing their job duties, you want all of them to die. Criticize some police officers for gross overreach, and evidence of brutality, you’re clearly okay with them getting gunned down in the streets. How adults can exist in a world where there is no nuance, no gray areas, where you’re either with me or against me, boggles my mind. I will say I’m sick and tired of people behaving as if being a first responder, or in the military means that you are exempt from criticism. I appreciate the job you do, and the risk you take, but you aren’t beyond accountability because of it.
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Right on, Larry. Right on time, too.
I started to reply to SonsofAres, but you have already stated my points better than I could have done.
There is no doubt in my mind that this country could be easily propagandized into supporting another stupid war. I’m old enough to have lived through the VietNam era, and now the Iraq disaster, and we have learned nothing permanent from either of them. We will go on throwing oceans of money and lives away like confetti, waving the flag, shouting about our values that we often ignore when it suits us, and never learning the lessons that would keep us from making the same mistakes again.
I’m sick of so-called patriots. The my-country-right-or-wrong types who reduce every issue to black and white. They brag about their exceptional country like they brag about their favorite football teams. We aggrandize the “heroes” who line up to go to war, but we never equally elevate those who stand up to oppose the waste of those lives, and who have been proven right more often than not.
In the end, it is the rightness of the cause that really matters, and that hasn’t occurred since 1940. If this country was ever truly threatened, I would do anything necessary to defend it. But until that happens, I will criticize the mindset that glorifies war, and that requires mindless support. I guess that makes me a “latte liberal”.
I enjoyed Wilmore’s entire episode last night. I’ve met many veterans across the wars (WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1, Iraq 2). The discussion was especially good since it talked about how the movie was too black and white. In a sense, it was too John Wayne-ish.
Thing is, some veterans really are a-holes. The subject of American Sniper definitely is given everything I’ve read about him and his real life. On the other hand, I know some really great American soldiers. SonsofAres’ stupid comments aside, most Progressives and Liberals see the world far more nuanced than the Conservative attitude that servicemembers are all heroes no matter what.
Wilmore talked to two veterans later in the episode in which they both agreed that the movie fell short. The panel included a Canadian lesbian and Matt Taibie from Rolling Stone. Neither of the veterans was treated like they were horrible people.
Wilmore really meant was this movie about a man who was an a-hole or a hero. He was not calling all soldiers, Marines, etc that.
Got to love how some people never bother to read or think about the whole thing.