I guess you see what you want to. I’m seeing even on left leaning boards like HuffPo more people not liking the situation but asking what else could Israel do? Hamas won’t stop shooting rockets, they were warned there would be retaliation. After Hamas ignored the cease fire I think it went even more Israels way. I keep seeing the pro-Palestinian side stuck on the whole ‘the rockets don’t really kill anyone’ excuse which no one is buying. Just because you have a crappy gun doesn’t mean you’re excused for aiming it at a kid’s head and pulling the trigger.
- Most Americans don’t care one way or another–we on this thread are neither representing nor educating Americans. We are engaged in our own narcissistic desires to have our voices heard or just to waste time.
- Those who do care one way or another, tend to support Israel, or, at the very least, have a fairly negative view of groups like Hamas, or Arabs in general.
- Poster on sites like this not only tend towards enclave extremism, but the “Pauline Kael Effect.” If you’re unfamiliar with it, after Reagan won his second term, film critic Pauline Kael said “But none of my friends voted for him…” So the fact that the threads that you read and post on have other people of like minds who post like doesn’t really mean much. I suspect very strongly that if you went to a lot of other websites, you would find quite shockingly that people have the exact opposite opinions.
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Marriage laws are about the only area in which Israel is a "religious state.’ but even there, you are not quite right. Israelis who marry abroad have their marriages recognized, and same sex-couples who marry abroad are also considered to be married.
and as far as “fundamentalism” goes, if you can find another fundamentalist state with Israel’s LGBT policies, I’d be interested in finding out what it is.
I, too, have enjoyed your posts, Carlos, and I expect to in the future, but I believe your extremism on this topic speaks for itself. You apparently see no shared culpability on the part of Hamas and other militant Palestinian groups who refuse to negotiate a peace unless, basically, Israel ceases to exist. I lived in Israel for two years, and I recognize none of what you claim is the way of life there, in the same manner that I don’t recognize much of what non-Americans say about the brutality of this country. Israeli people are as split on the topic of a Palestinian homeland as Americans are split on immigration reform (and virtually every other topic, for that matter). I do sympathize with the Palestinians and believe they have a right to an independent homeland. I also think Israel is far too militaristic in its dealings with Palestinian authorities, but I do not agree that Israel, by virtue of its overwhelming military superiority, can simply impose a peaceful solution any more than the United States can do the same with its militant Islamic enemies. I’m afraid I simply don’t see this conflict as black & white as you do.
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1.Work on your reading comprehension Judy: it clearly states “in Israel”.
2.Friendly to LGBTs- unless of course you’re on the wrong side of the Bantustan fence.
No, it doesn’t. Here’s what you wrote:
“No Israeli may marry outside his faith community.” You then had a specific circumstance involving Russian immigrants who have difficulty marrying “inside Israel.” So yes, Israelis may marry outside their faith communities, and have those marriages legally recognized in Israel; they just can’t perform the marriage in Israel. Had you said “Israelis in Israel may marry outside their faith community,” you would have been correct, but you didn’t. You might want to apply to that reading comprehension course as well.
Israel is friendly to LGBTs, period. Unless you’re suggesting that Israeli aristrikes are targeting gays in Gaza. But I suppose all things considered, it’s no more ridiculous than some of the other things I encounter here.
When I say “Israelis” do this, or “Israelis” do that, I am referring to the policies of the government. I am well aware that not every Israeli wants to kill every Palestinian, or vice versa. I don’t know what it is that you think I have said about life in Israel that you find unrecognizable; all of my comments on this subject have been about conditions in the occupied Palestinian territories, where you presumably didn’t spend your time. As far as extremism goes: there are over 200 dead Palestinians, and one Israeli in this conflict; in the Gaza War there were about 1300 Palestinian deaths to 13 Israeli dead. I am no cheer leader for Hamas, but if there’s an existential threat here, it seems to be posed by Israel.
There will not be two states on the land west of the Jordan River. The Zionist aim is too incorporate all of “David’s Kingdom” as the land of Israel. Israeli spokesmen and apologists have said often enough over the years that the Palestinians can have their state in Jordan.
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I don’t believe that “extremism” is generally defined by casualty rates. Hamas is “extremist,” because it operates based on a charter that draws from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and calls for the destruction of Israel, not because of the occupation, but because they don’t believe a Jewish state should exist in the Middle East.
It is that extremist philosophy that led Hamas to launch a very successful and bloody suicide bombing campaign, which Israel successfully combated in part by putting up the security fences you would like them to take down. It is also that extremist philosophy that motivates them to launch rocket attacks from civilian areas, knowing that it will invite an Israeli response. And, of course, it is that philosophy that keeps the people of Gaza under their control and doesn’t allow them a choice in whether or not they would prefer a change in government.
Reading comprehension, CF–please note, I specifically said that was the one significant theocratic element of Israeli law. But seeing as how that’s about the only significant theocratic element of Israeli law, it’s hard to call Israel a theocracy or a fundamentalist state (as a google image search of tel aviv beach should demonstrate)
The “Zionist aim?” There are a wide array of “Zionist aims.” Taking the most extreme and declaring that represents the Zionist Aim is about as reasonable as oh, say, taking Hamas and saying that represents the “Palestinian Aim.”
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Then it’s time to re-establish the Jewish homeland and State in North America, where the plurality of world’s Jewish population already live.
I personally suggest Florida as the location, because I don’t care for the desert.
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Josh Marshall thinks supporting another Euro-American colony in the middle-east is just peachy.
What’s a few hundred “dead injuns” when Josh can have a summer home in the Mediterranean?
1.This is a particularly annoying quirk of yours, to cut down the utility of our argument when you “got nothing”.
2. Support of Israel is declining among liberals/Democrats, and increasing among Republican/conservatives. This is ironic in that there are no Jewish Republicans in Congress, but 33 Democrats/Independents. Maybe the “end times” has the Christianists excited, or maybe they just really, really identify with Likud-style racism. Whatever the reason, it ain’t 'cos the like Jews, I’m guessing.
3.Regarding the Pauline Kael effect: the comments I was referring to were on the NYT, which, while marginally liberal, is influential in this country, and especially notable in that it and it’s readership were historically very pro-Israel.
Bingo
Also, money!
It still is, just not by Josh Marshall and TPM.
FFS, here’s the entire post again with emphasis so you can catch the part that you insist I didn’t say:
“No Israeli may marry outside his faith community. Hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens from the former Soviet Union who are not Jewish or whose Jewish ancestry is in doubt are unable to marry at all inside Israel.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel1I dunno. Sounds kinda fundamentalist to me.
You can’t have free elections in a concentration camp.
Where “X” equals any exploitable group.
Don’t worry, Josh Marshall has got Israel’s back!