Discussion for article #227634
“What they hate is abuse, no matter who does it.” Perhaps this is the way it should be presented. People against violence, violence against someone else, violence against children, wives, husbands and pets (this type of violence seems to hit a higher outrage scale than that against wives/women).
It isn’t that women want to be singled out as victims, they want to be treated as humans. Because our culture/media/activities are depicted from a strong male point of view and always have been, it isn’t any wonder that the men feel threatened and uncertain. If you have been told and presented in one way for most of history it isn’t any wonder they feel like the rug is being pulled out from under them and by those “others” who have been and are depicted as weaker, less intelligent, subservient sex objects. Even with all of the dialog and open discussion of the issues, still our commercials and advertising of women is mostly sexual in nature.
Be that as it may, it still that women and many men as well are against violence of any kind against another human/creature. I doubt you will find men who are against domestic violence but find it OK to torture animals and the same with women. This isn’t a us against just domestic violence it is us against violence period.
Just like pro-choice isn’t about being pro-abortion, women against domestic violence and rape are not pro-violence against men.
What might help is if we could move people like Fox news pundits that have become prostitutes Mr. Ailes and his anti-women and children and freedom messages. We need to move people like Rush Limbaugh out of the spotlight. We need to move him to the dark and not highlight every gum ball that comes from his mouth. The same with all of the extreme right wing anti-humane pundits. Right now they are at the top of every blog, news outlet, and journalists “go to” articles and topics. What would happen if we highlighted more rational analysis and analysts.
It’s all about perspectives and right now we only see the commercial negative perspectives, and we only have ourselves to blame because we click on, pass on, and buy this violence in our lives.
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Hi Folks,
My name is Ken and I am the author of this piece. I’ve been a TPM Prime member from the very beginning.
I’m happy to answer any questions about the piece, or my research in general.
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Thank you Ken for this piece.
Thank you also for articulating the kind of experience which resonates with me because of the echoes it evokes of my own experience, beginning as a volunteer at a women’s shelter/rape crisis center 24 years ago, and evolving into a career both in agencies, and now in private practice, trying to help people on both sides of the issue deal with the tragic reality and consequences of interpersonal violence in their own lives.
It is understandable that members of society who are socialized to include power and control, and aggression, in their toolkit of acceptable responses to perceived danger, kind of automatically assume that if someone opposes their chosen methodology of responding to perceived danger then that response is going to involve power and control, and aggression, being aimed at them.
But I like to think that the more enlightened advocates of non-violence, equality, and respect for others, understand that power and control and aggression are unacceptable choices for us also, if only because they are fundamentally counter-productive.
It has been that issue of counter-productivity which has served me well as a key in helping me to understand that the best response to intimate violence is not retribution or revenge, but helping aggressors alter their behavior so as to make the future better than the past.
Several experiences have contributed to reinforce that approach. I came to understand that most thoughtful victims are not seeking revenge or retribution as their primary goal, post-victimization, but are seeking a sense of safety in their future, a safety which is not ensured by retribution, revenge, or punishment, but only is realizable when their aggressor understands the full dimensions of their abusive behavior, understands how counterproductive it was when measured against the underlying intent of their actions, and thus come to regret their actions for the harm it has caused to both their victim and themselves, then, finally resolve to make the future better than the past.
As I came also to understand that every aggressor I have ever worked with, sincerely, and, on a superficial level at least, understandably, considered themselves to be not just a victim but the victim, I began to look a little more closely at their experience.
I came to understand that their historical experience as victims has meshed with their expectations of how society would respond to their behavior and thus blinded them to opportunities for positive change, as they steeled themselves against the hostility and danger that they had learned was the usual response to any of their actions, and instinctively reached into their toolkit of aggression as they sought to protect themselves against their perceived danger.
Ironically, that helped me come to understand that the opportunity for positive intervention came through helping aggressors feel safe with me and see me as someone who respected their fundamental humanity enough to want to help them make their lives better.
That has helped enormously to make it possible for many, though admittedly not all, to listen to me when I speak truth to them, help them gain a clearer perspective on both their intent and the counter-productivity of their action, then find ways of responding to the future better than they have the past.
It has no doubt helped me to become more effective because this has not just been an academic exercise for me but a journey which I have personally shared with all of my clients, largely because it has mirrored my own struggles with my past and present feelings, thoughts, and behaviors.
Ultimately though, it has been a rewarding experience for me, and I have reason to believe it’s been beneficial for a few others also.
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Thank you, David, for your thoughtful comments.
Your dedication to the cause is admirable.
Ken
CLK,
I agree with your suggestion that agencies that assist victims should continue to oppose all forms of violence. I think that is the direction they are currently heading. As more men each year admit to being victims of sexual violence (most often, from other men) there will be a greater need for services to help them.
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It was an excellent article for all the points it made. The women it describes work in very dangerous situations, and really are deserving of our admiration and support.
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I kind of hate to say it, but a protective male generally makes predatory males back down, A woman can always be batted aside, but a guy standing there seriously gives them pause. Especially if he’s defending females, as this puts the predators at a severe psychological disadvantage. No matter what, an abusive male always feels guilty, no matter how deeply he tries to sublimate it. They know it’s wrong, they just try to find justifications.
Several friends (volunteers) and I built a replacement abuse shelter next to an existing one that was due for replacement (as it was a WWII barracks), and we had cause to take (ummm . . .) exception to the behavior of some of the abusive men who showed up to reclaim their property (errr . . . women). It was AMAZING how often these fools could fall down a flight of stairs. Repeatedly. Enthusiastically, And the cops ALWAYS believed us.
Men who hit women are not men. They are men wannabees, pathetic sacks of testosterone whose gonads dictate their personal interactions. Facade males whose manhood is based on a comic book image and girlymag ethos. You know, republicans.
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Thanks, Ken, for this worthy piece of social research. It takes a “special man” to share such mentioned social settings to the subject–Man-Hater. But, why was the synonym–misandry–omitted from the writings?
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Ombrax,
My methodology is to analyze social life as seen by the people I study. The women I studied never used the term misandry, thus it would be dishonest of me to argue that the concept shaped their behavior. I do agree that the term misandry has made a comeback in contemporary discourse, but it wouldn’t be fair of me to say that the women I studied discussed or worried about that term the way they did the “man-hater” stereotype.
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Thanks for enlightened me in this regard.
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Ken- I helped start a men’s counseling program within a battered women’s shelter in the S.F. Bay Area in 1981. I, too, awkwardly received undeserved praise for just “showing up”. (Still do sometimes.) I am now self-employed but still treat batterers and battered women. It is a calling for which I am grateful. Thank you for the excellent article and the uplifting descriptions of the work shelters do.
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Once that the abuser has been thoroughly and publicly denounced, the pendulum inevitably swung back, with both cable news commentators and fans rushing to his defense.
Still, few have come to Ray Rice’s defense.
Notice the contradiction in these two sentences. In the Ray Rice case the pendulum hasn’t really swung back. With very few exceptions (mostly media types trying to be provocative) Ray Rice’s behavior isn’t being defended. Probably because it is difficult to defend the indefensible.
OK Ken, you did good, but you aren’t really the lone male in America working on the problem of domestic abuse. I can point to hundreds of men who have helped fund the major domestic violence shelter in my community. Men from local civic clubs have spent countless hours providing volunteer maintenance at that same shelter.
In my own building there is a pick up and drop off location for children in heated domestic disputes. It is staffed by paid staff members from the local domestic abuse shelter and local police officers. While the shelter employees are women, nearly all of the officers are male. The combination helps keep things smooth as kids are dropped off and picked up.
Before patting yourself on the back for being a lone man among women, look around. Millions of men are opposed to domestic abuse. You are not thought a traitor to your sex for volunteering at a domestic abuse shelter. Domestic violence is not an “us versus them” problem. It is a very human problem that I am happy to say is being addressed by both women and men.
Ronbyers,
Thanks for your comments. I should have been more clear that the purpose of the article was not to pat myself on the back, but rather to show how I did not deserve the extra praise I received.
Ken
@sociologist This article appeared today on Daily Kos and I think underlines in bold the fact that men have been inculcated with the “right” to beat women for thousands of years. It is a “new” concept in history that women have a voice and hearing that voice only adds to the confusion many men are facing now. Society and the roles men and women live are changing faster than we can erase thousands of years of violent doctrine.
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