How is my argument a “straw man”? I’m not mis-representing what was said and it’s not taken out of context as it can stand on it’s own.
I’m pretty sure I know what he intended to say but that’s not how that sentence reads.
I’ll stand on what I’ve already posted, thanks.
I think there is an opportunity for progressive policies to help people – but the language and tone needs to be adjusted. Its like we are talking another language – but the human problems and needs of all human beings are pretty much the same. Why must we actively push people into the arms of right wing demagogues?
That’s right! Why use the language they use to describe others to describe them?
Sure. Remember, only Black People are “Takers”. When White People take (excuse me, UTILIZE) government support it’s not “TAKING” it’s “their constitution RIGHT.”
You don’t see that there’s a difference between “our state” did such and such, and “they’re within the state” that did such and such? If anything, the implication is that it is a common subset of the state, not that is a common characteristic of the whole state.
Just to be clear, I haven’t understood that Harney County residents are making up the bulk of this protest… Bundy may speak for some of them, but hardly all. Moreover, jobs like prisons, ranger, etc. are as good as any tough job, and shouldn’t be denigrated because they are ‘government’ jobs, they are not handouts, generally speaking.
Thank you!
I grew up in rural America and while I’m a staunch environmentalist right down to leaving no trace when my family camps or I backpack, I feel deeply for these people and their way of life that has changed so rapidly.
In my little town there have been incidents of people starving almost to death rather than accept a handout. My elderly step father has moved back there and has a pretty large organic garden with which he tries to supplement folks food supply. They’re too damn proud to even accept green beans from him, he has to leave his beautiful produce in buckets on street corners and then collect the empty buckets the following day.
To see someone here say they should get a “real” job is both infuriating and frustrating. That’s a meme only the most cynical GOTPers might use.
It’s not just the county in Oregon. Most of these republicans are HUGE spongers. They don’t like to admit it but it’s true. Back in the '80s this was Gingrich’s big thing. “The people in the South are tired of paying for your liberal programs.” He could use it all the time because there were no numbers. Now it’s 30-some years later and we have DECADES of numbers. Guess what they show? C’mon. Just take a guess.
Two very red states, Louisiana and the perpetual American problem child, Mississippi, get the most federal aid. Forty-two percent of Louisiana’s revenue comes from the federal government, edged out by Welfare Champ Mississippi at 43%. And this is not back after the Civil War. This was at the end if fiscal year 2013!
When you rank these guys as to depdendency on the federal government, as the personal finance website, WalletHub, did, you find that the states that have the greatest percentage of poor citizens with crappy wages, awful health and rely on the federal government to get by, are in states run by republicans. Only ONE of the top 15–or bottom 15, however you wanna look at it–was not run by a Republican.
They don’t and they don’t much care for Bundy trying to speak for them.
While this is all good and true you need to appreciate that it’s hard for people who once earned a wage working outdoors with their hands to transition to these types of jobs with such an employer. Most saw themselves as self reliant all their lives. Whether or not they truly were is a different and more nuanced philosophical discussion.
Because they’re real men becoming pussified…but other people who transition between careers have it easy?
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Who’s the target of your response? Are you accusing Sooner of being a racist?
I’m definitely not laughing at the Harney County people. As far as I’m concerned, their response as a whole has been just the sort of sane response we would all expect.
The people occupying the wildlife refuge are outside agitators. And they are laughable.
And you are absolutely right that Democrats need to speak to the frustrations of white, rural people, too. I’ve seen so much demonization from the left. If Democrats want to win and transform the system, they cannot buy into this urban-rural divide. Rural areas do have some tough times. Poor whites are frustrated and angry, and dying earlier than previous generation, from suicide and overdose, according to a pair of articles in the NYT.
What people call white privelege is actually upper-class white privilege. We could add some caveats, too, like straight and male. But even the rich white Republican candidates have drug abuse in their families.
One thing I liked about OWS was the focus on the 99%. They were interested in uniting us to solve problems. Democrats have the upper hand in policy. They seem to be clueless when it comes to rhetoric and the basic human connections that are important to most people when they vote. (And those connections should be important. Most people know that they are uninformed about policy. They look for someone they can trust to learn the policy matters on their behalf. If you want rural people to vote for you, show them they can trust you.)
Why do they think we should subsidize their life style and listen to them bitch when anybody else gets helped? They need to lose their sense of entitlement.
All true and I’ve used this to rebut many a GOTP red stater who whines about blue states.
These are from the Visualizing economics website http://visualizingeconomics.com/2010/02/17/federal-taxes-paidreceived-for-each-state/
All indications are that the vast majority of Harney County residents are opposed to the occupation and want it to end asap.
But why are these guys any different than furniture builders in NC? I must have missed the armed occupations involving them.
So why don’t they go out and get a job that private industry is willing to pay for? If that’s how they feel?
sounds like education instead of home schooling and job retraining instead of timber cutting skills would go a long way. Assuming either are accepted when offered of course.
I’m sure that’s totally true. I’m just continually surprised as how far in the bubble these people in the refuge really are at times. I have no problem subsidizing the area with government jobs or infrastructure building, it’s just the irony of their inability to grasp how the government props them and their neighbors up sometimes.
