Discussion: Gunman, Who Reportedly Shot Paris Cop, Takes Hostages In Kosher Shop

Discussion for article #231827

They’ve got big problems in France…and more widely in Europe.

I’d hate to be the one to make the call, but I hope they assault that shop soon, otherwise there will be five dead people formerly known as “hostages.”

That’s actually not protocol in those situations, and usually leads to the death of hostages. These two guys have not slept for a long time, etc. You just need to wait this out. Only if you can get a clear shot at both of the guys at the same time do you start shooting, and since these guys have military training, they likely won’t allow that to happen. But they are still humans who have to sleep eventually. One could pass out at some point, the hostages might be able to get the other one. But I think at this point the proper move is to wait it out.

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Maybe in a Kosher market he could begin to learn how much Muslims and Jews have in common.

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My thinking is they have one interest only at this point, and that is to go be with Allah in an act of jihad. They don’t give a frog’s fat ass about their hostages except as a means to that end.

Maybe you’re right.

Again, I’m glad I’m not in a position to make such a call.

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France should bring in a religious leader from a local mosque. Have the iman explain that they have killed another follower of Islam and will never get the virgins or anything after they die because they have violated their faith in Allah.

Perhaps that will help. If not, use the conversation as a distraction to infiltrate the building and free the hostages.

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I wonder what the woman is promised in martyrdom? Can’t imagine why any woman would fight for AQ

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Not so sure about that. These were not suicide bombers. They are trying to survive. Killing hostages will not help them survive. The right move is to wait at this point. Yes, being in the position to make these decisions must be gut wrenching, hostage negotiation is a very stressful vocation, though not quite as stressful as being a hostage.

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Right. Thank God that hate crime shootings never ever happen in God’s Own Country. Or any other mass shootings. Or perhaps you mean that the European problem is that its countries stood by the United States in its war on terror. And, to their everlasting shame, assisted the torture program to some extent.

The current French government has at least four full ministers with a non-European background. Similar situation in the UK. In Germany there are several ministers at the state level and numerous highly visible members of the Federal Parliament from all parties. Integration is far from perfect, but there are considerable efforts. How many muslims are there in high ranking positions in Congress and in the US Cabinet?

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It is good to see that women have some equal rights in Islamic fundamentalism. Question - do they also get 72 grapes when they get to the garden, or do they serve as one?

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Unlike Germany, UK and France, we have the benefit of living in a pluralistic society. France, for example, is a secular society where public displays of faith aren’t tolerated by the State and doesn’t sit well with citizens which conflicts with Muslim open expression/living Islam: veil, beards, etc. (even the yarmulke in the Jewish population). Muslims are generally marginalized and poor. Assimilation is paramount in French culture. There is also growing anti-Semitism in France and Germany. So, I guess it is fair to say that Europe does have to confront a problem with a growing Muslim population in a way we wouldn’t have to.

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I think if that were the case, they’d already be dead now. They are acting like they want to live…now, that might turn out differently…

France and Germany both have a long and sordid history of anti-immigrant behavior and virulent anti-semitism.

Now Islamophobia is gaining ground quickly, and situations like this don’t help.

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Holding all Muslims responsible for the actions of madmen who choose to interpret religious text in a violent manner and harm others in the process? About the same as holding all veterans responsible for the actions of Timothy McVeigh.

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You mean, other than that ni…[CLANG] in the White House?

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One of my first thoughts was that this was probably going to give quite a boost to France’s RWNJ’s, along with similar fringe parties in other European countries.

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My point, though not clearly defined enough in my original post, is the fact that France and other European countries have pretty quickly moved from where their Muslim minorities are miniscule amounts of boogeymen for the right-wing (like in this country, where Muslims are what, one-half of one percent of the populace?) to instead being sizable enough to become a political threat to the established order.

Most of Western Europe other than Spain and the UK approaches (if not already has passed) 10%, which is easily enough to become a political player in parliamentary systems.

I’m sure Marine Le Pen is smirking and giggling, behind closed doors at least.

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Fear, hatred and ignorance seems to be everywhere. In the middle of the mess we always see some form of religion (my G-d is greater than your G-d). We all have something in common…a dying planet.