Discussion for article #233394
The only thing that will satisfy too many idiots on the right is a total war on Islam across the globe. Otherwise, as she snarked so well, her comments were too nuanced for the Peanut Gallery.
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If we look at the current surge in terrorism, it is fair to say that it did not originate in poverty. The ideological leaders have taken their lust for power and maybe even some level of religious fanaticism and planted the seeds of discontent in the fertile soil that IS created by poverty, desperation and a disaffection from the society in which the many live, for whatever reason. The ideological leader then finds a scape goat to blame for whatever the followers resent. They now have ardent followers lapping up the radical fanaticism the ideologues spew.
They manufacture grievances blaming the followers’ condition on the forces of the other and proclaim with religious fervor a battle against the outside others who are to blame for their plight. The others who would change their world to something the others will impose on the followers unless they rise up and violently reject the existential threat they see coming from the other. The ideologues proclaim the others as infidels, heretical and offensive to the god of the followers. The followers are told they are in a holy war to restore the glory of the past. They begin to remember the wonderful past even if the memory is totally false.
Thus is born, the Tea Party.
…or am I being too nuanced?
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If we look at the current surge of teabaggerery it is safe to conclude it didn’t manifest out of poverty. It was cultivated by the very rich. Decisions were made on how and when to ‘rouse the rabble’.
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As every American presidential candidate says, “It’s about the future.” Who is going to offer a “future.”
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No, poverty may not contribute as much as she claims but I can guarantee one thing that does: the U.S. meddling in the Middle East.
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I heard a British Muslim discussing his book on Fresh Air a couple weeks back. He’d gone full on radical and then returned to “normal” and believes that the new radicalism is born out of a failure to assimilate fully and/or being resentful of not being accepted in their home countries, even if the were born there. Economics is a big part of it because most of the young men and women, second and third generation residents, who answer the “call to jihad” are un- or underemployed, live in poverty or just feel no connection to the UK, France, etc. The only thing I didn’t follow, really, was how this leads to a intense religiosity and a desire to fight “infidels” in the ME or C. or S. Asia when their problems are really at home.
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Ah, but which “home” are you discussing? Yes, an impetus to jihadism is sparked by the alienation and high unemployment rates among young Muslim men in Europe. Many of them appear to be seduced by a society that welcomes them and gives them guns to demonstrate power. Long story short, we are seeing the results of a baby boom in the Muslim world with lots of young men with little to do in today’s Middle East and much less in Europe.
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How long did the ‘Troubles’ last in Ireland?
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Increasing economic opportunities in the middle east may not be THE fix for terrorism, but I am convinced that the lack of opportunities is an ongoing, festering contributor to recruits for terrorism.
There is no ‘fix’ for all terrorism, but by the same token, it sure makes a lot of sense to recognize the traits that foster people willing to commit terrorism.
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At least she didn’t mention the crusades.
It’s not the glorious past of their memory they’re trying to reclaim, it’s the one from the Koran. It’s appealing because they haven’t had opportunities but it’s much deeper than job opportunities.
““They just need to read the newspaper. Anecdotes abound.””
Again with the “anecdotes = data” nonsense? Fucking morons. And let’s just cut to the chase and call it what it is: shit got said by someone they want to shit on, so they’re deliberately misinterpreting what she said. It’s called lying. And for fucking once it would be nice to see people call it what it is.
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One thing we need to face is the essential role of radical web sites. If we are at war, then these sites need to be shut down and access blocked as much as possible. We wouldn’t have allowed Nazi web sites during World War II (yes I know there was no web then, but a radio station broadcasting appeals to Americans to go over to the Axis side would have been shut down in minutes). Free speech doesn’t include incitement to murder, like the call to run over infidels with cars, which someone in Canada actually did. Those site should be treated the way kiddie porn is-shut down and banned.
As for poverty, I tend to believe it isn’t the main factor, as there are many countries with great poverty and little or no terrorism and many terrorists from middle and even upper class backgrounds, in both the Middle East and the West. Personally, I think the thrill factor is a big part of it. Young people, especially males, do all kinds of crazy things for thrills. And that is where the web sites come in. They glamorize fighting and killing. So stop them.
I think you’re talking about Maajid Nawaz.
icymi - this article “What ISIS Really Wants” by Graeme Wood is really good. I’m pretty sure from this article that Erick Erickson has read it.
The solution to world peace would seem to be convincing our planet’s religious extremists of all stripes the planet is about to blow up. In the tradition of Douglas Adams we’ll convince them we’ll be right behind them they are just important not to get off the planet first
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I heard that interview as well. It was fascinating. I did not get a sense of what to do about it, but I listened to every second of it. A real drive-way moment.
She just doesn’t give a rat’s butt what they think. The new Civil Service may be taking shape! Reagan/Bush’s worst sin was to kill off Civil Service and replace them with for-profit contractors. We lost our entire government memory that stretched back to WWII. Gone. Instant brain death.People who cared more for the approval of their professional colleagues than they did for lobbyist bribes. Government is about property management, not economic support for business.
I’m with you, Sniffit. It is clear to me because I actually watched this segment on Hardball where the statements were made. Taken in their totality and in context, there is absolutely nothing wrong with these statements. The GOP’s nonsensical poutrage harkens back to the “You Didn’t Build That” meme. Party of idiots.
Once again, this only serves to point out that our dumb-assed media cannot grasp simple truths OR nuance. They are utterly pitiful and willfully ignorant.
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According to some, the 'troubles" are still ongoing.