Discussion: Gillibrand On Calling For Franken To Resign: 'Enough Was Enough'

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#121

I don’t blame Gillibrand for forcing Franken to resign before an official ethics investigation. In some respects, the rules that allow such things to be dropped and forgotten if the subject ceases to be a member of the legislative body deserve more ire.

I do however, hold her more than a little bit responsible for placing the bar where Kavanaugh could get over it.

If you don’t understand the harm short circuiting the ethics investigation caused to treatment of all such future allegations, well, we’re all going to get plenty of opportunities to think about it.

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#122

And Dick Cheney’s shotgun victims should apologize to Dick.
So, Al hasn’t done enough to mend fences or build bridges to KG, or make sure she is protected from any unfair fallout from being seen with her hand on the knife?.
Al never blamed her or did anything to make her life harder.
What fantasy are you living in?

Your answers are evasive. Why is it so hard to say these things are complex. We don’t have all the answers. Summary execution might not have been best. Each case has it’s own facts, regardless of how much of the entire history of the world you want to pile on your side, to give a pass to KG.

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#123

Do you believe in letting wrong-doers off the hook?

Let them skitter away to salvage some dignity in private, without letting the sunlight in to illuminate the full and accurate measure of the person and accusations against them?

Not doing anything to make a public example that might deter young impressionable minds that haven’t entirely internalized their Catholic high school upbringing?

Reassure other public figures with similar episodes that there is a good chance they too can evade real responsibility, and being made an example of?

#124

It was a flak vest, in those pictures. And a combat helmet.

“For all we know she is graciously leaving that part out!”
Were that to be the case, there would be nothing at all gracious about it, it would be derelict on her part.

“And I know these disturbing accusations are true because he did it to me too …”.

#125

which topic…internecine warfare or sexism?
either way you make a very powerful observation.
I am sorry for any part I played in making it more uncomfortable.
@jimtoday @causeforconcern

#126

“The people upset with Gillibrand in this thread are focusing their anger incorrectly”

You need to stop assuming you understand all the reasons different people may have been irked by the Senator’s actions regarding Franken. And she certainly wasn’t alone, but she chose to be the vanguard.

#127

Trump has done a lot of damage to our relationships around the world. Along with domestic issues, I want to see a democratic candidate that has some gravitas in foreign affairs. Among those who are obviously vying for the nomination, I haven’t seen that yet.

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#128

“…no more than 5% of accusations of rape are false.” You don’t know that; we don’t know that. It may be close, but we do not know. To date the data are unreliable and vary wildly, from 2% to 8%; we know that of the executions in the U.S from 1900 to 1963 approximately 7% were in error. That’s quite a bit. I agree with much of what you write but urge caution where the data are still developing and are not reliable.

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#129

What about Cosby?

#130

No, I think wrongdoers should be shamed and punished. Shame is an underutilized tool.

I’m interested in making an example of them, but more interested in stopping the behavior in that specific person because living in a decent society is of interest to us all.

I’m not sure what you are thinking I’d disagree with, we seem to be on the same side.

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#131

She’s a great woman and a fine Senator but I think the average voter views her as a scolding old aunt. I’d rather keep her as a legislator. The Pochohontas thing too is a real problem, unfortunately.

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#132

I mean Sen. Warren

#133

Good luck with this argument! I thought it would be the overwhelming observation (it is also mine), but we are the enemy now!

My mom was corralled, glared at and ultimately groped by a popular fellow teacher at the high school where they taught. She was in her 50s at the time and had never before faced this workplace abuse. Although it did not go beyond a few feels, grabs and gropes, she still felt powerless and traumatized. Since he was so popular she realized a formal public by-the-books grievance would make her the enemy of a “good guy and family man”. See now? Probably not.

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#134

You seem to think getting Franken to resign absent a thorough investigation advances the cause of stopping the behavior and I think having done so irreparably harms it.

C.f. Associate Justice Fratbro Opusdei

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#135

I fervently hope her campaign quickly crumbles into dust. The prospect of choosing to vote for this opportunistic shark or an even bigger opportunistic shark with a terrible comb over is more than I can bear to contemplate.

#136

No, none of that is relevant at all to the rage and anger directed at Gillibrand. Franken’s a grown man, he can figure it out. I don’t think calling out bad behavior is bad. People, especially women don’t take kindly to gropers, grabbers and inappropriate touching. You see there is this new thing called the “Me too” movement…

The resolute determination to not blame the person doing the unwanted groping (unless they are Republicans. See: Bob Packwood ) is eye-opening. I’m cool if people disagree with me, it makes the world go 'round.

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#137

wow the comments section here are so disappointing. I don’t see Sen. Gillibrand winning the nomination, but she was not wrong in the least to call for Franken to resign (along with every other woman in the Senate it should be noted). how are people still hung up on this? the 9 women who came forward with allegations were all to just be ignored? Franken didn’t have to resign, but he did. Gillibrand is not some all-powerful being who controlled his thoughts and actions, he just realize the jig was up and bowed out before even more and worse things came out. the women who came forward were certainly not the only women he mistreated. we need to be better than the right wing on this issue for f’s sake! when one of our own screws up as badly as Franken did, they’ve got to go. period.

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#138

Thank you for your reason and clarity!!!

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#139

You are mistaken.

#140

"the 9 women who came forward with allegations were all to just be ignored? "

From whence did that horseshit come?

Seriously. Where the duck fid you get that nonsense?

Being asked to give testimony is the opposite of being ignored.

But, since you know what went down, I look forward to seeing your sworn statements about all 9 episodes.

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