Yeah, I think there’s another agenda at play, here.
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I take it this was the County Clerk, an elected official who oversees the county paperwork apparatus, as opposed to the small c clerk who literally passes out forms and collects the fees. The distinction is important because I have no problem with a small c clerk quietly requesting a transfer to building permits or something, if passing a form to a gay man is just too much for her tender conscience.
The elected official should resign or be removed by whatever legal process they have down there.
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You seem to be awfully bent out of shape over this. Let me guess, you oppose gay marriage. I can tell by your words “phonies on the court”. You’re just another one of those bigots who think marriage is only for straight people. Face it, you lost, and anyone who stands in the way of a gay couple obtaining a LEGAL marriage license deserves to be sued. The end.
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I don’t think I have ever said…they we not legally entitled to that license. I believed that long before SCOTUS agreed. So if that’s your line of attack Ill let you go by.
What I said was…why support the “Gay Agenda” canard? Gay’s have a nationwide victory…in a fight they never should have had to fight. But they got 5 yeas on the Supreme Court. Not next time.
As I asked another poster…do you think…if that person is truly devout…and truly believes that support of same sex marriage is a sin…they should be forced into that sin? That person had that job before the SCOTUS ruling…remember. I don’t think very many, if any, of the folks actually have a faith based exemption but how do you prove that? You can’t so benefit of the doubt is all theirs.
One of these Clerks is going to haul this crap up to SCOTUS. Its going to happen and that Court is going to rule for them. After that ruling clerk one…clerk two and so forth can say no and you can’t do shit. Why go there?
These folks got their license. Good. But in pursuit of their pound of flesh they may make it difficult for others in the future.
Love that the county clerk’s name is K.D. Lang. (almost)
Simple question: if a county clerk maintains this his religious beliefs prevent him from issuing marriage licenses to black people, should he be given a pass? Should black people have to travel to some other county to get a license? If a public school principal states that her religious beliefs prevent her from enrolling any Jewish students (don’t want those heathens influencing Jebus’ children, don’t ya know?), should we just let that slide? Should that child’s parents simply be required to find another school?
And if the issue ever comes before SCOTUS, those are the simple questions that should be asked. All we’d need is one dedicated Pastafarian county clerk to throw a wrench into the works, and reveal how untenable the “faith exemption” position is.
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Yes, and that’s important. We’re not talking about the checkout clerk on aisle 4. This is the County Clerk, to whom we must all apply for marriage licenses, building permits, and licenses for our pet halibuts (named Eric, of course). The small “c” clerk can just be reassigned somewhere. I’ve got no problem with that.
Nah. Richard is a long time poster here, and pretty generally a stand up guy. I understand where he’s coming from, which is to let sleeping dogs lie because the people who oppose this are most assuredly going to be taking this to John Roberts and the Supremes for some sort of 1st Amendement coverage. This is similiar to why pro-choice people have been so leary of pushing on incremental restrictive laws and saving their powder for the crippling ones: they’re afraid of giving this court a chance to do the wrong thing. All that being said, i’m sorry to have to disagree with you, Richard. This is an incremental thing and if this isn’t snuffed out now you will see the right for gay people to marry to be a right de jure, but not de facto, much as it’s legally permissible to get an abortion in South Dakota, but there’s 1 clinic and you have so many barriers that it’s functionally impossible for huge swathes of people. If the couple in this article were poor and couldn’t afford to retain a lawyer, they wouldn’t have a license now and if the clerk is allowed to walk away like this, the next couple, that is poor, will have a good chance of being unable to get the license and may give up in dispair. The clerks must be compelled to perform the law and must be penalized if they refuse. Otherwise you end up with South Dakota.
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And, as has been said to you by multiple other people, there’s not a constitutional right to be a county clerk. If you are opposed to the death penalty, you probably are a bad person to be the state executioner of Oklahoma and if you’re opposed to issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples, you should decide not to be the county clerk. I wish this clerk much success in her life, and in another career. She appears ill suited to this one.
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Absolutely correct. Hence my puzzlement.
Oh for God’s sake make fucking sense. Enough with the childish shit. What “religious” exemption against Black people? None…not here…there or anywhere in the USA is a religious basis for racial discrimination recognized. Stop it. As for Jews they are already protected against discrimination. And no one is advocating that betaken away. Your scenarios are absurd and not going to happen so don’t expect anyone to be moved by them.
I believe this religious thing is a crock of crap. But then again I believe religion is a crock of crap. Does a check out clerk have a right to refuse to ring up a pork chop because she is a Jew? How far does it go?
Right now there has been a major shift in the rights of Gays. A tectonic favorable shift. Let it cool down. Lots of folks are pissed off so now is NOT the time to stick thumbs in eyes. Let if fucking be.
Can the verbal abuse. Now.
I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m speaking wrongly for him, but I presume his concern is that people persuing legal justice like this, and it is justice, not vengance, will stir up trouble that will jepordize the gains we have made in this area. He might be right, but it’s still important to fight for this or, like the right to a legal abortion, it will erode away.
Thanks for the clarification. I for one do not believe that the war has been won yet. If we take the example of abortion rights, everyone rested on their laurels back when Roe vs. Wade was won and now look where we are. The right wing will never give up their quest to take away these hard fought rights from the LGBT community, so we should never let our guard down. This was an important strategic win and these county clerks are just holdouts that must be mopped up through the courts.
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I refer you to The World Church of the Creator. The white identity movement most certainly have a very, very misguided religious wing that tries to cloak in in God’s words. Many white identiy bigots say it’s God’s plan. Hell, even the judge who was overturned in the Loving case, which was in most of our lifetimes, by the way, said that God put the races on separate continents to indicate that he wanted them not to mingle and that we stupid humans screwed it all up. I’m really pleased if you haven’t been exposed to these nitwits, but I assure you they’re out there.
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I suspect you’re right, but to me it sounds exactly like the notion that blacks should not have conducted sit-ins at segregated lunch counters, or should not have tried to register to vote, or should not have tried to enroll their children in white schools. After all, slavery had been abolished, and Brown had decided the question of school integration, so why rock the boat? Be thankful and grateful for what you’ve achieved, but don’t frighten the horses.
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What are you puzzled at? I am glad these folks could get a license…but I do not think the GOP’ers are done with this. So why fan the fires? If they could not get a license…after that SCOTUS ruling my position would be quite different. But they did…and in Texas no less. So let it calm down. The next time this thing rears it’s head there is no way its going to bring about a good outcome. It’s going to be a setback.
Not currently, but there USED to be - within my own lifetime, and I’m not even 50 yet.
Interracial marriage was illegal in some states and people were JAILED for it, even when they were married in a state where it was legal. Religion was used as the basis for these laws, until they were found unconstitutional.
Kinda exactly like what just happened with same sex marriage. In fact, some of the same language was used by the religious bigots as their justification.
So the question posed to you was not even a hypothetical. It was not a “what if,” it was more of a “remember when.”
Given that, your seeming anger that it was raised is totally misplaced.
The comparison used is not only apt, it is a historical precedent.
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Oh, I completely agree with you. I think Richard is completely wrong in this case, but I don’t think he’s an ogre. I understand where he’s coming from but I just don’t agree. I remember the massive resistance from Virginia where they closed an entire county school system for -5 years- because they refused to integrate it. It’s already been demonstrated that there are judges, one up in my neck of the woods, in fact, that will issue no licenses at all in preference to issuing one to a same sex couple. This needs to be slammed down on very prompty and very harshly to keep the wobbly people from deciding that they can defy the court too.
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They were DENIED a license by a government official AFTER the Supreme Court ruling.
What is it about that that you are not getting?
And yes, as you’ve said, a handful of GOP officials are not done with this, They are still fighting. So your answer is to retreat?
A couple were denied their rights. They suffered monetary damages. They are not 2nd class citizens, they don’t just have to “consider themselves lucky” to have only lost attorneys fees because they were victimized.
You are arguing that some people should be happy to settle for discrimination because it is not as bad as it was before. Ridiculous.
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