Discussion for article #231209
the Alcohol, Tobacco an Firearms regulatory agency always seemed an incongruous grouping until now. Taxing cigs and booze discourages consumption using the public health rationale. A taxing policy on AR’s so severe may have kept Mom Lanza from making the economic choice that ultimately enabled a massacre.
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Maybe the FTC would be more appropriate, since marketing for these weapons included claims of masculinity enhancement.
Where are the taxes on pools, pharmaceuticals, hot dogs and automobiles?
No, I’m not a tea bagger. Yes, I believe in the entire constitution. I voted for Obama twice.
If every person who hates civilians having access to guns is all about the safety of persons why not attack the sources of other “deadly” industries? Forget taxing cigs and alcohol - their death tolls aren’t anywhere in the same ballpark as firearms. They should be eradicated altogether. Research hot dogs. Any parent who feeds their kids hot dogs is totally irresponsible. They kill many people, most of those being children. Pools? I understand the emotions behind these shootings but face it, Adam would have stabbed his mom and others like many Chinese without access to guns do all the time. Or maybe he’d poison people. If you want to kill people in large numbers there are many ways to take lawful products and direct them at your fellow man in ways unintended.
If we had a society that actually cared about its citizens and didn’t ignore or imprison people with psychiatric issues we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
But by all means put Bushmaster out of business for selling shitty plastic ARs.
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Don’t know about pools and hot dogs, but the makers of pharmaceuticals and automobiles have been sued many times for producing products that threaten public safety. I don’t expect this lawsuit to succeed under the current interpretations of the second amendment, but I do applaud the effort.
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Sued yes, ongoing political movement to end their existence in civilian hands? Not so much. I get it and respect people’s feelings on it but it’s hypocritical and pisses me off when I see other problems not get any attention at all like the FDA being worthless, NHTSA can’t do anything to corporation selling faulty airbags etc.
Pool manufacturers get sued all the time. And while I know of no specific taxes related to my pool outside of increased property tax, I do have to pay a fairly large amount of additional home owner’s insurance to have it.
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False equivalence. Guns are a tool for killing people. It’s not a useful tool, like a saw, that might injure people if used incorrectly. We need saws, even if they can be dangerous. But some countries like the UK do just fine without guns all over the place.
And you seem to have your facts all wrong. Firearms are a lot more dangerous than things like hot dogs and pools. You have obviously been fed some bogus facts. eg. the rightwing myth about pools being “more dangerous” than guns. Not everyone owns a gun, yet they use “per capita” rates of the whole population, not just gun owners; while just about everyone has access to a public swimming pool or the beach. They usually trot out homicide firearm deaths or accidental firearm deaths, but not complete firearm deaths including suicides. And finally they ignore that many more people are shot and survive, but can face serious injury from guns, like being confined to a wheel chair.
Basically it’s complete bullshit. I hear a half dozen news reports of drownings in my area each year. I hear of multiple people being shot every day. The death toll in the US is like 30,000 killed by guns, which is close to 90 per day. And this doesn’t inlcude the 4 times that who will survive a gun shot and perhaps face permanent injury.
Compare to the 3000-4000 who drown each year in the US.
And yet everytime I look, some wingnut is smirking about how we need to ban pools.
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Yeah just like I’d pay more if I had a certain breed of dog. Just like we pay more if there are more accidents or thefts of vehicles in our area. That’s not government oversight or an official answer to deadly risk. The insurance industry is great at assessing risk.
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It is government oversight. Approval for all those rates you are charged, products you are offered and even every word written on the policies themselves are government regulated and driven to the nth degree. This is what I do for a living (health insurance). I know that insurance studies are thought to drive government and the like, but look at the ACA…it really does work the other way in most instances.
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Straw Man.
It’s not false equivalence. Deadly things are deadly things. Not all deadly things are identical in the method of causing death. I never claimed they were.
Guns are sold to civilians for use as hunting and defense. Like many tools they can be used in ways not originally intended. I made no comments regarding any of that before so you are arguing with yourself about that. Or you can continue to pretend I wrote things that I did not.
Black people get killed in the UK by cops with guns too. (I wasn’t aware I was discussing the UK) They even get shot by cops and have riots afterward. Australia’s gun ban stopped that hostage situation today didn’t it? Did the UK or Australia have something similar to the 2nd Amendment? Or is your beef with certain types of firearms? There are nations with high rates of gun ownership that don’t have the violence or accident issues on the same scale. I’m not all too sure about the scale though when you compare population sizes in those nations, the number of gun owners in the US and actual incidents.
Why the need to create things I actually never said or implied?
I never said any of those things I mentioned were more dangerous than anything else. I merely stated they are dangerous, which they clearly are, and kill people needlessly, which they do. Why can’t you poke holes in something I actually said like the reference to mental healthcare? Maybe because people of sound mind don’t normally commit suicide (euthanasia isn’t crazy) or shoot up schools.
C’mon man seriously? Guns are the only things that put large numbers of people in the ground or in wheelchairs? DUIs? Auto accidents? I don’t know about you but drunk drivers are the number one killer of multiple people at a time around me. Nobody is discussing bringing back prohibition. Why not?
My point still stands. There are other things that are hazardous and cause needless death and injury on a large scale that people aren’t trying to limit at all. DUI fatalities are around the same number as gun homicides nationally. I don’t drink alcohol. I say bring back prohibition it won’t bother me at all and hundreds of thousands of people will stay safe and healthy every year. It’s cool deciding for everyone else even if most people don’t become alcoholics or drive under the influence. Good talk.
I can see your angle and I agree to a certain extent. Government does provide oversight to the insurance industry in some sectors like your own, auto and provides flood insurance in areas. That is mostly to provide guidance where the industry is abusive, has been abusive or non-existent. Rates for many things especially those outside direct govt oversight like with auto & health are not set by the govt. That’s not the same as an actual tax. But I can see how maybe from a governmental or economic perspective it would be viewed as a tax or disincentive and they would just let that insurance provide the discouraging.
Good point Allie.
I’m trying to remember if when I switched my homeowners insurance earlier in the year if they asked if I owned firearms or not. I don’t think so.
Another point on the tax thing- most people don’t know you can buy automatic weapons and other “illegal” weapons if you have a tax stamp and pass the checks.
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Nope. A saw is useful and necessary for building things. A gun is there to KILL PEOPLE. We can’t ban food or tools or cars, but many countries ban or heavily restrict access to guns.
Hunting rifles are a red herring since they are useful for hunting but are not the problem when it comes to street crime (handguns) or mass shooters (high capacity semi autos).
And the talking point about nations with high gun ownership but low firearm death is also a myth. Switzerland for instance is #20 (3.84 per 100,000) on this list, while the US is #13 (10.30 ). That’s not great. Compare to the countries like Korea (0.06) or UK (0.25 ) way at the bottom. Gee, what do those countries have in common? The pattern is blindingly obvious: guns kill people and the more guns you have, the more people will be killed.
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there are a number of gun owners that even after double bolting the doors, fear an attack by the poor coming for their stuff and would find a gun useful in preserving their stuff. I would have a hard time shooting someone over a flatscreen, but that’s just me.
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Stolen from
Lestatdelc
4h
I just hate the terrifying specter of drive-by poolings.
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I’m just not seeing how these families have any kind of legal case. There’s no way to connect Bushmaster to Lanza’s actions. They didn’t even sell him the rifle.
The thinking is that if somebody’s willing to break into your home, while you’re present in the home, they might very well be willing to do more than just take your stuff.
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Pool manufacturers, just like manufacturers of any other product, get sued when their product causes harm by being defective.
No, they get sued for a myriad of reasons. One case in particular was improper notification of various dangers associated with diving into the pool. The plaintiffs won.
My post was about deadly things. You can make any different statement you want but it doesn’t mean that what I wrote is fallacious. Try this as an experiment, separate what I wrote from Glenn Beck-Giuliani psycho racist repub bs and ask yourself if my comments about mental health make sense. I’m not saying here anything other than what I’m saying. I’m not a repub. I’m not a rich old caucasian man. I am non-racist, law abiding person of color who appreciates being able to protect himself and his family in the absence of law enforcement officers who I readily call when I feel the need. I also like hunting. I learned to use firearms as a boy scout. I also really f’in hate the fact that many “regulated” industries poison Americans and don’t pay any price except for settlements decades later and it kind of pisses me off that some other things get so much attention when there are plenty of things out there killing Americans needlessly.
Half a million American casualties are generated just from “distracted” driving. I’m not trying to play a stat game about people dying. All of the shit is needless. If I had my choice none of it would be happening.
Those are my feelings on this situation. I hope you have a great holiday season/Winter Solstice - whatever you may or may not celebrate.
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