Discussion for article #243491
âThe school is a women-only madrassa with a chain across Pakistan and branches in the U.S. and CanadaâŚâ
This will start the next phase of reaction: Trump and other Republicans will demand an immediate closing of these schools in the U.S., and will demand that Canada will do the same. The Pakistan connection to this barbarous event is really going to fuck up the lives of perfectly law-abiding Pakistanis already here in the U.S., including academics at major US universities who regularly travel to Pakistan for their work and to visit family still there.
Very interesting David Begnaud, CBS report this morning about a college friend and work mate of the male CA shooter that contradicts the quiet image the family has suggested. This friend contacted the FBI as soon as he realized who the shooter was and said the shooter was a chatty guy, not a quiet oneâŚchatty about cars, future plans and his religion but extremely guarded about his new wife.
Malik studied pharmacy at the Bahauddin Zakariya University in the central city of Multan where she got a degree in 2013.
âBomb-making 101â.
Looks like she failed the final in that one. Thank FSM.
Hereâs what I canât understand. She had a 6 month old daughter. I have a 6 month old granddaughter and watching her grow and discover the world is endlessly fascinating. It reminds me of when my children were babies and the sheer joy of them. I canât understand how she could hand over the baby, go on a killing spree, shoot it out with police, and post her devotion to ISIS leader but not a good-bye to her daughter.
I donât get that part either. It isnât as though their targets were political in any wayâŚa group of disabled people and those who work with them.
But Iâm with youâŚthe fact that either of them could leave behind this daughter seemingly without regrets is impossible to fathom. And moreover, leaving her to be raised in this country, which they obviously deplore.
Lets see: 17 of the 19 - 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, so we invaded Afghanistan (and the Pakistaniâs helped the Taliban, who they created, escape, along with Osama Bin Laden, a wealthy Saudi who directed the attacks via Al-Queda, a group the CIA funded and created, in Pakistan, to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.)
No Iraqiâs were involved in any way, shape or form, so Dubya invaded Iraq in 2003. Thus allowing Al-Queda access and massive recruiting opportunities where they previously had none. After completely destroying the mostly secular Iraq, ISIL emerges from the ashes of Sadamâs Sunni Military to oppose the expansionist Iranian-backed Shiia government in Iraq (and co-opts the revolution against the despotic Assad.) Even MORE extreme than Al-Queda, ISIS attracts much funding early on from Saudi extremists, thus causing the Monarchy there to prod the US and others to fight ISIS on their behalf (while many Saudi Princes pour funds into ISIL.) Meanwhile, Israel wants us to kill them all (because the only good Muslim is a Dead Muslim to the current Prime Minister of Israel.)
So, our TRUE enemies seem to me to be: The Pakistani Secret Service (ISI) and Saudi Arabian Princelings with too much money and not enough to do.
Therefore, we attack anyone and everyone NOT them (while whipping up anti-Islam fervor among the low-information under-classes in the US) because the Pakistaniâs control Nuclear Weapons and the Saudiâs own the Bush family and control most of the Congress via the international Oil industry.
Now, an AMERICAN CITIZEN marries a Saudi Woman who was educated in Madrassas in Pakistan and then commits a âTerrorist Actâ and all the Slavering Reich-Wing War-Mongers want us to do in response is INVADE SYRIA. Right.
Throw into this Xenophobia, Racism, Fear of âThe Otherâ, and opportunistic Politicians on ALL SIDES and you have a toxic mix that causes death an destruction in an every spiraling cycle of violence with the innocent on all sides paying the price with their lives, and the wealthy profiting from every step.
Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
100% correct. And a big part of the problem is that even when we can coerce the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan do do what we want, there are enough non-governmental/non-official actors (billionaire-level independently wealthy princes and businessmen in SA, and the ISI in Pakistan) who are fully capable of doing whatever they want, which most often is funding radicals.
Religious fundamentalism. As an example, Jehovahâs Witnesses routinely reject people in their own families in favor of their religion. My sonâs grand parents shun their daughter, and as a result, my son has no grandparents.
And people say âwhatâs the harm?â
Iâll be that itâs going to come out that one of her classmates at this madrassa was one Barack HUSSEIN Obama, aka âBarry Soetoroâ and that they used to sit around reading Saul Alinksky books together while planning their nefarious scheme to invoke sharia law in the U.S.
I saw that interview. It was very interesting. Farook didnât like paying taxes because he felt he was helping america pursue its policies and wanted to leave the US,
If Fox and talk-radio was on the left, this would justify headlines about the murderer being a typical right-wing, anti-tax, anti-government, gun-loving religious nut.
I asked a long term friend of mine who happens to be an internationally known psychologist about these two.
I thought I would hear some psych talk. His answer: âTheyâre crazyâ.
I suppose thatâs about as scientific as it can get about persons who are so out of touch with reality and so willing to perform unspeakable acts.
Some lessons and outlines of the patterns of 21st century terrorism are emerging. First the macro features. It is clear that all to nearly all of the terrorists and terrorist groups subscribe to the virulently intolerant and barbaric wahabbi sunni strain of islam. Second, the terrorist threat is both organized, decentralized both malignant and metastatic. Third, many of these jihadi groups are funded by Saudi Arabia and enabled by Pakisatan. Egypt, Sudan, Syria and Somalia and Nigeria are battlefronts. Our supposed allies Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Pakisatan and Turkey use terrorism as an instrument of foreign policy and actively support terrorists. Their governments, military,social and judicial institutions and their populace have been infiltrated by terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.
Finally, the USA, which has had a de facto pro-Sunni foreign policy for nearly 100 years, is in a quandary. Israel prefers the current pro-Sunni and anti-Shia policy status quo but the national security threats to the USA are from Sunni countries and their terrorist surrogates.
The micro features. Many of the terrorists have no national allegiance. Their commitment to their barbaric beliefs transcends political boundaries. The gruesome crimes that these jihadi individuals commit are typically committed on a much smaller scale mostly by criminals with mental derangements. Clearly, the terrorists are being brain washed so severely by their faith and their handlers that they become capable of horrific evil. The terrorists are inhabiting a deranged reality where they appear to ignore even the most primitive norms of human behavior.
Evil People will do Evil despite Religion.
Good People will do good despite Religion.
Good People will only do evil in service of Religion.
I think that a more nuanced view is warranted. I have said before that religion is a bit like a drug or toxin. Religion like a drug can be good as well toxic or addictive depending on the dose and circumstances.
The exact teachings and emphases can modulate what the religious do as a consequence of their religioisity. Thus some religions can foster terroristic tendencies more effectively than others everything else remaining the same. A small dose of religion may appear to be a source of comfort to some and appear to promote social altruism and community. However, a safe dose of religion for most people may leave some vulnerable individuals to intolerance, hate and terrorism.
Religion is not a âbitâ like a drug, it IS a drug, and it is frequently abused as such.
There is documented evidence that a âreligious conversionâ results in changes to the brain that precisely mimic the brain changes of a habitual drug user (this is why 12-step programs are successful. They replace one addiction with another.)
It is âAction/Rewardâ on a physiological level that results in addiction to the endorphinâs of oneâs own brain (much like long-distance runners who MUST get their âfixâ to feel happy.)
The brains of âHighly Religious Peopleâ ARE different from the rest of us. That is why Religion is so insidious and destructive. The âReligion Addictsâ will do ANYTHING to get that feeling of âhighâ and âgetting their fixâ becomes their only rational for EVERYTHING and they donât care who gets hurt in the process.
Just like a heroin addict.
Marx was wrong about a lot of things but his statement that âReligion is the Opiate of the Massesâ was dead on.