Discussion for article #231771
I hear the high-pitched whine of an engine in reverse at full throttle. The poor gal really doesnāt deserve to be put on the spot like this. It is, after all, one of the questions for the ages: Should we judge the art by the artist?
Should we retroactively ban āThe Cosby Showā just because Bill was (almost certainly) a criminal sex offender?
Should we delete the highly regarded video lectures of an MIT professor for similar reasons?
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Except is IS about the women; they say they were drugged and raped by Cosby. Quite a few women are saying that.
So you canāt āforget themā.
Yes, Cosby has a legacy. But if what these women allege are true, that doesnāt mean we should sweep what he did under the rug. If he did what heās being accused of, that means he violated people, he hurt them, he took something from them. Sometimes bad acts canāt (nor should) be erased simply because youāve also done good. Not to mention that Cosby definitely benefitted from the wonderful things he did; he was placed on pedestals, heās been financially compensated, heās been awarded with a doctorate, etc.
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Thatās up to the individual. In my case, for example, I refuse to watch any film by Roman Polanski until he serves time.
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āI had never heard that before,ā she responded. āI canāt even speak to those things and donāt want to.ā
Huh!?!?!
Sounds like sheās worried about her residualsā¦
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My thoughts exactly. Sheās got a dog in this fight. A big one.
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It really isnāt about his art at all! Itās about expressing disapproval for a living human being who has taken no responsibility for actions that have hurt many other still-living human beings. His silence, while explicable from a purely legal standpoint, demonstrates a failure to acknowledge the damage caused by his actions and a refusal to accept responsibility. His art is something else entirely that will stand on its own or be forgotten, and time will decide.
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āThe evil men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bonesā.
ā Shakespeare
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This sounds as if it could have come from Cosby himself;
Itās not about those women, This is ALL ABOUT ME.
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āāI didnāt jam this foot in my mouth. It was put there byā¦outside forces! ā¦Anyway, donāt stop my gravy train over a few rapes! ā¦What?āā
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Should good acts be erased simply because youāve been accused, but never proven/convicted, of committing bad ones?
You used the word āIf.ā Are we to āerr on the side of cautionā and lynch someone ājust in caseā because āwouldnāt it be a horrible shame if we later find out that we let him get away with itā?
Again, her point that weāre watching the accusation equal the conviction here is valid. Acknowledging that fact doesnāt mean you have to take or have taken one side or the other in terms of whether you personally believe he did or didnāt do it. Belief and facts donāt always necessarily have to jibeā¦and of course frequently donāt (just check out Faux News if you want to take a bath in that sad fact). Rather, itās simply an acknowledgment that we donāt have the evidence to know for sure. So doesnāt that really highlight the crux of the matter? Whatās the appropriate response when we just canāt know? And how much does or should the nature of the accusation contribute to or determine what are clearly very fluid and changeable answers from people to that very question?
Let the flames beginā¦
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You do realize thereās circular logic built into what you just said, right? Heās vehemently denied these accusations in the past. Watching them get resurrected and him refuse to respond doesnāt mean heās āfailing to acknowledge that he did it.ā If the only thing youāre wiling to accept as ānot silenceā is an admission of guilt, then logic fail.
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" āWhat I said was: This is not about the women,ā Rashad continued. āThis is about something else. This is about the obliteration of legacy.ā "
Because whatās a few rapes among friends when thereās a legacy at stake?
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Now THAT is a BRILLIANT observation. +10 if I couldā¦
Whoās suggesting ābanningā anything? Networks make business decisions. If they can make money running it in the wake of the scandal, they will. If they canāt, they wonāt.
That these decisions are based on morality is illusory, I assure you. Granted, their calculus may factor in a moral backlash from the public, but in the final analysis itās down to whether on balance they make or lose money.
For example, Chik-Fil-A found gay bashing to be wildly profitable among the grease-slurping right wing Christian gundamentalist gas-guzzling-SUV-drive-thru segment in spite of the general public backlash, so that moral outrage is working for them.
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Personally, I have never said that he was definately guilty of anything. Iām not anyoneās judge or jury and, as you say, we donāt really know.
Having said that, for Rashad to come out and make a statement about this situation being tantamount to āthe destruction of a legacyā borders on the idea that this is some kind of conspiracy against Cosby. Really? Thatās what the takeaway is for her out of this? If we were talking about 2 maybe 3 women who you could clearly map some kind of grudge for the man, then Iād say thereās leeway to give him the benefit of a doubt. But, to have this many different women coming forward after all these years JUST to destroy him simply beggars belief.
In addition, how the hell can this situation NOT be about the women but only be about Cosby?? This isnāt his world that weāre just background props in. What is she thinking? (or notā¦)
Full disclosure: Iāve always disliked the man and believed he wasnāt contributing anything positive to Black people. Just my opinion.
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Itās a prison of his own making. Heās a celebrity whose standing as a celebrity has been damaged by accusations of a profoundly serious nature. His legal rights arenāt being threatened, so your arguments that go to reasonable doubt donāt apply. Thatās a very special standard designed to restrain the State, not one intended for popularity contests. Maybe I should have said that his silence demonstrates a failure to appreciate the consequences of shrinking from the accusations, rather than a failure to take responsibility for his actions. But at 20+ accusations, it amounts to the same thing from a publicity/celebrity standpoint, which is where the battle is being fought.
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Chez Blue, we watched Rosemaryās Baby last night and just the other night, Chinatown. Heās not going to serve time though he may deserve to do so, but weāre not going to miss out on the artistās work until that time.
Yeah, I have to agree the conspiracy idea is pushing it a bit of a bridge too far, and it certainly violates the rational approach Iām trying to take while playing devilās advocate.
I also havenāt the faintest clue what she means about it not being about these women, because clearly itās about all of them AND him.
As far as your full disclosure, as Iāve noted before, I think perhaps thatās maybeā¦just a guessā¦but maybe what she was referring to in terms of at least a motive for people to want to destroy him, i.e., that thereās a real and somewhat pervasive resentment towards him, particularly in the black community, for things heās said being critical of the black community wallowing in learned helplessness, etc. Even the Cosby Show itself was criticized by some as being a āsell outā and him a traitor for portraying a black family essentially assimilating to white culture.
I disagree. Iām not specifically referring solely to state action, but societal action in general. They are inextricably linked and shape each other.
I may be guilty of having double-standards, but I find it difficult to muster much animosity towards Polanski. The guy survives the holocaust (though his parents didnāt), and then 25 years later falls victim to one of the most heinous, notorious crimes in the U.S. in the 20th century, having to bear the knowledge that not only was his wife slaughtered in the most brutal manner, but that his unborn child was as well. Considering the girl heās accused of raping has now, as a full-grown woman, expressed her desire to see the guy left alone, thatās good enough for me. Maybe personally being the victim of two separate unimaginable crimes doesnāt earn you any chits at the karma table, but my feeling is just leave the guy alone.
And if thatās not controversial enough, Iāll end by saying that I just donāt get the fascination with Chinatown. Decent movie, but over-rated in my opinion.