Discussion: 'Congestion Pricing' Tolls, Plastic Bag Ban Approved In New York Budget

I donā€™t know about other states, but California banned single use plastic bags (with some exceptions) either last year or the year before and it has helped reduce litter on the streets.

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Has anyone invented a cheap paper bag with handles? Thatā€™s why I like the plastic bags - I can haul the groceries upstairs in one trip, whereas with paper bags it would take multiple journeys. The only paper bags with handles that Iā€™m familiar with would be too expensive for single use.

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What was wrong with free paper bags at the grocery store? Why is there a charge now that is split by two State agencies?

This is all good, but Gov Cuomo, the real-estate industry and other plutocratic lobbies have blocked the pied-a-terre tax and ultramillionaires tax that would net the state almost $3 billion a year, a sum that would do wonders for education and other services for the vast majority of New Yorkers and taxpayers. There will be vigorous round of primaries next year for the state legislature.

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cloth bags can be bought in a variety of sizes and they all have handles.

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Fine, as long as you launder them fairly frequently. Someone grabbed a bunch of frequently re-used cloth bags, did some swabbing, and found that they were unbelievable bacteria traps.

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If I inadvertently forget my reuseable bags, my TRADER JOEā€™S here in Bklyn. gives paper bags with handles.

And I wash my reuseable bags every few months or so. Itā€™s not particularly cumbersome.

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This seems like a ā€œfeel goodā€ measure to me. The exceptions include: bags for pharmacy prescriptions (odd - my pharmacy has always used paper), bags for take-out food, produce bags, trash bags, and food storage bags. Better than no control over plastics at all, I suppose, but it doesnā€™t really tackle the underlying problem.

Then there are the unintended consequences. I recycle my plastic grocery bags, including the produce bags. But if itā€™s just produce bags, theyā€™re hardly worth recyling - there just arenā€™t enough of them to warrant bothering with. So into the trash they will go. Result? Less recycling.

And BTW, itā€™s estimated that it takes seven tractor-trailers to deliver the same number of paper bags as one tractor-trailer thatā€™s hauling plastic bags. So, ā€œgreenā€ solution?

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You should probably do it every couple of weeks, not every few months, unless you buy only boxes of pasta (the well-known Semolina Diet).

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No kidding. Our eco-friendly small town full of retired ex-hippies passed an ordinance a few years ago, mandating a $.05 charge on every paper bag. It was to encourage people to use their own canvas or heavy-duty plastic bags.

Good in theory, but you wouldnā€™t believe what some of those bags look like, moving down the conveyor ahead of me at the grocery store. Nasty stuffā€¦ no wonder the check-out folks wear gloves now. Some people apparently donā€™t know they need cleaning at intervals.

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Iā€™m sure it has helped reduce litter in the trees as well.

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One enormous environmental plus is once the law has been underway for a year or so, nearly ALL intake pipes for water being siphoned into the treatment plant will note a dramatic decrease in costly clogs ā€“ costly in time and money. San Francisco did this years ago. The benefits were so dramatic, the state soon followed suit.

I get away with washing my cloth bags every 3 - 6 months. I wipe out the hot/cold bags after each use. I rarely need plastic anymore.

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I think ā€œgivesā€ is probably the wrong word. You may not be charged for them explicitly, but Iā€™m sure Joe ainā€™t swallowing the considerable cost.

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Iā€™m more curious about the congestion pricing tolls.

EZ Pass scanners on every southbound avenue? And on every bridge from Brooklyn into Manhattan? What about the people who live in Manhattan within that zone? Do they also pay it?

I know other cities abroad have done it, but it just seems like it would at least 5-10 years to enact.

Yes, I wonder about the sheer mechanics of pulling that off. I have visions of the walled Manhattan in Escape from New York.

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As a New Yorker, gotta say I have mixed feelings about that. I understand the environmental concerns, but Iā€™m not sure paper bags are significantly better. And while I canā€™t speak for all NYC households, I know that in my apartment ā€˜single useā€™ plastic bags almost always get a second use as garbage bags - a second use for which handle-less dead tree bags arenā€™t that suitable.

So between killing trees to make paper bags that really do get used only once, Iā€™m not sure banning plastic bags is a worthwhile improvement.

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Trader Joeā€™s uses paper bags with handles, but the handles arenā€™t very robust and they canā€™t be hung from door handles to function as mice-resistant garbage bags (I live above a restaurant).

ā€œThe Manhattan tolls plan known as congestion pricingā€

While I am not aware of all the issues involved, who is actually getting penalized with this toll scheme? One thing I dislike entirely is just putting an arbitrary toll or increased cost on existing roads that have been paid for already. And it feels like a lack of planning in lieu of demand may be a different issue. But I always wonder about what happens to someone already dependent on these routes. We go through this periodically in Texas.

Given that Manhattan gave Trump less than 10% of its vote, as compared with 46% in the rest of the US, I have, not just visions, but, dreams of Manhattan walled off from the rest of the US.

For the time being though, I guess weā€™ll just have to settle for our natural moat.

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