Discussion for article #245121
Did you write this headline in January 2008?
I think that was the same back then, but, then there was actually a solid intellectually challenging young bi-racial man…with a very funny name. You know how to write headlines? Tell me about this in January 2017…admit you wrote this, the first step to recovery from your idiot headlines.
No need to lambaste someone for reported what those polls show.
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Thank heavens.
I won’t vote if she isn’t the nominee. I can’t in conscience do that because I don’t think Sanders has any more clues about running a country than Donald Trump does.
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You mad, bro?
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Tena: I don’t think Sanders has any more clues about running a country than Donald Trump does.
tena, i too am voting for hrc. however, if you really mean what you have posted, you need help.
WTF is wrong with the headline? It reflects the content of the post. TPM can come up with some pretty odd headlines, but this ain’t one of them.
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What is the basis for the belief that Sanders has no clue about running a country? I get that Hillary was a first lady and was involved with policy at some points in that administration, with mixed results at best. I get that she was briefly a Senator and then Secretary of State. Sanders has been in Congress and the Senate since 1991. Before that he was a mayor for eight years. Before that he ran a political party (whatever the “Liberty Union Party” is). He was apparently very involved in getting key language into the ACA. He has a history of working with both parties to get things passed. He made Burlington, VT more affordable.
The charge seems to be that he’s a pie-in-the-sky naif who will be eaten alive by the reality of American politics. I get that the GOP is just into opposition. However, Bernie has some good relationships in both houses he may be able to use. The enthusiasm he will generate will probably take back the Senate (the House is too gerrymandered for that, I believe). Hillary, being a Clinton, might set off mass GOP hysteria at every little thing she does. Her husband may become a distraction which could actually cause tabloid headlines (you know the media will be out there looking under every rock). Bernie’s personal life is simpler and infinitely more boring, which I see as a plus.
So…Hillary, based on Secretary of State credentials, and her connection to the Bill Clinton administration, MIGHT know more about how things work, but Clinton Derangement syndrome could really hamstring her, since Presidents operate on a symbolic level, and if there’s a whiff of personal scandal, that could be damaging. Bernie ran a city (not a small town, but not a big metropolis) and has MORE time in Congress than Hillary. Bernie generates more enthusiasm across party lines and with folks who don’t always vote, so he may have some real coattails. Hillary generates some enthusiasm, but maybe not as much.
Hillary is a centrist and pragmatist with SOME strong liberal stances–gun control, women’s health. She is not as proactive in reigning in business (claiming she knows them and can TALK to them isn’t enough for me); Bernie is very much about regulating an irresponsible sector of our economy (no more let them regulate themselves) and is progressive in many other ways (he may not be what some want on gun control) like health care and foreign policy. Hillary’s history on foreign policy can be read as hawkish and too pro-Israel, or just as pragmatic and experienced.
There’s no guarantees Hillary can get any more done than Bernie. Both are strong, smart, experienced and accomplished. One is clearly more progressive (to me, that’s Bernie); one is clearly more pragmatic (HRC). I don’t think we know how Bernie will deal with resistance; we assume he’ll be stuck on some idealistic approach and refuse to embrace any incremental change, but how do we know that?
Both will meet with strong resistance from the stubborn, sexist, xenophobic, and fantasy-driven GOP. Both are infinitely superior to anyone the GOP could ever nominate. I will work for Bernie and vote for either potential nominee. Not voting at all is NOT an option for me, and I would hope that by election time anyone on EITHER side of Hillary vs. Bernie will get over their disappointment and vote for whoever is nominated by the Democratic party.
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A major difference between now and 2008 was that, when Obama won Iowa in 2008, African Americans in the South suddenly realized that a black man could win in an almost all white state. This gave them hope that he might actually win the election.
It’s easy to see why African Americans would abandon Hillary for a chance to have the first ever black President in US history. I wouldn’t expect them to have the same reaction if Bernie Sanders wins Iowa and/or New Hampshire.
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mh26: What is the basis for the belief that Sanders has no clue about running a country? I get that Hillary was a first lady and was involved with policy at some points in that administration, with mixed results at best.
tena’s trump/sanders comment annoyed the hell out of me. i like bernie. he is saying lots of what needs to be said. trump is a wart on a frog’s ass. if tena is unable to see the diff, lord help us. but, i also think you are selling hillary short. i believe she has the chops across the board to be a better president. bernie’s foreign policy is weak. yanking out his iraq vote every time foreign policy is mentioned is not the same as having ideas that work.
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You are really THAT dumb?
And, you’re NOT VOTING gives us Donald Trump? What an idiot you must be.
Sanders is someone you should investigate, inform yourself about. But you are too pig headed to admit your own stupidity. Imagine: a country that cares for the sick, injured, poor, veterans…how horrible that would be.
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Gonna have to pile on here. If you’re not just trolling, then you seriously need to re-evaluate your stance on this. Hillary and Sanders have a lot of similarities, and most if not all of those similarities are things that Trump and his supporters absolutely hate. Equating Sanders and Trump is just plain silly. That’s not an attack, that’s just the truth.
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I couldn’t disagree more – and I bet Sec. Clinton would disagree with you. Though I am voting for Hillary Clinton, I have total faith in Senator Sanders’ ability to do a great job as POTUS should he win the nomination. I am very pleased we on the left have such strong candidates to choose between.
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Jeez guys, foot off the pedal. haha! More bees with honey ring a bell?
Tena, I ask you, respectfully, to reconsider this. Firstly, it will, most likely, be Hillary so this will all be moot. But if it isn’t, you not voting could very well lead to a President Trump or Cruz. Furthermore, it’s very possible that 3 SCOTUS seats could be up for re-seating. Do you really want an asshole like Trump to choose 3 justices? Any liberal policies will be dead for a generation. Roe v Wade will be overturned. Voting rights will be challenged some more, and be restricted more! Gay marriage will be challenged again! Every conservative Christian religious organization will bring cases before the SCOTUS. You not voting, and people who are thinking like you, could very well enable this. Please, reconsider.
edited
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You are absolutely right. @Tena, I would really like hear from you – why do you consider Sanders such a poor quality candidate, to compare his abilities to those of Trump? Thanks.
While there are no guarantees, I think if Bernie were to become POTUS he would be a lot better at shaming the Rethuglicans than HRC. I could see him calling them out by name, perhaps even going so far as to helpfully providing contact information. I can imagine him making life a lot more difficult for them than Hillary.
I could be wrong. (Hmm. That’d be a first for me. LOL)
Beatty, assure me again that we will all come together at election time? 
The chasm seems to be growing…
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Nah, we’ve been through worse. Everyone will come around.
Besides, it’s still early.
As long as the debate is respectful …
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Thanks. Needed to hear it.
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(((Big Hug))) I know – and I am really taken off guard by the “differences” some folks are feeling they see. For me, personally, I am closer to Sen. Sanders … but, pragmatically, I see Hillary Clinton more electable on a national level. I would love either a President Clinton or a President Sanders. I mean it when I say I’m proud we have such great choices. I even like Gov. O’Malley – maybe his time for national scene is yet to come.
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