Oh, I agree. It’s a “fuck 'em, we got to to it” comment, not a reason we shouldn’t.
Meanwhile, rightwing sites are now claiming libruls are risking nuclear war with Russia and civil war just because they’re butthurt by the election. That appears to be the emerging line from the people who tell the crazy people what to think.
Well somebody made me spit coffee on my keyboard over an interview with Bolton…
Sorry about your cornflakes.
And some folks think trump is being patriotic doing it.
I hate this version of reality. I think I was happier during the great recession. After all, that was only money.
(kicks stone, walks away)
Yeah, others have said uncharted territory, but does anyone know about the actual Electoral College rules? If the vote to hold debate requires a majority, we’ve already lost. If the debate is a matter of course, why would we think the people who supported HOTOG would go against their existing immunity to facts and patriotism to reconsider their positions? How would opponents organize their campaign to bring all of his malfeasance, high crimes and misdemeanors to both the College’s and the public’s attention to make the solid case that the “faithless electors” have done their Constitutional duty?
My god, I’m starting to vomit popcorn.
EDIT: Damn, they don’t even meet as a body - just in their individual states. That’s not very conducive to the kind of independent action the country needs.
OK, another idea - if 37 electors don’t vote for HOTOG, but also don’t vote for Clinton, could that overturn it? Is it only a majority of the votes cast, or does it have to get to 268 for one person?
Calling Daniel Ellsberg. We need you—Vietnam was certainly a crisis–but now we are facing
an existential crisis—threats to the Constitution and the planet.
The public and, immediately, the electors must have an opportunity to review Trump’s Tax Returns
so we can find out the extent of his ties to Russia.
When I hear Trump deny the Russians had any effect on the election, I think he believes it.
I read a great article in Outside Mag. by a guy who investigated Performance Enhancing Drugs–anabolic steroids in this case–by doing a shit load of them. What he found was incredible: very fast recovery times from workouts, increased eyesight, tremendous drive to win, for starters.
But the most amazing thing he discovered was that, even though he was doing athletic things he could never do before, and bought the drugs so he could do those things, and so he could write an article about how PEDs work, he found himself believing that it WASN’T THE DRUGS MAKING HIM FASTER. It was ALL HIM! He thought he would be doing that well without the drugs, but he just happened to be taking them while his performance was off the charts. Really.
Trump will never believe the Russians did this. Even if it’s proven. Even if he hired them to do it, or cooperated with them so they could have access to all that POTUS power and info in exchange for victory. He won, in his mind, all by himself and because of who he is.
Out of 538.
Yeah. That will have an influence.
Man imagine the shit storm if EC votes Hillary. I’m almost more scared of that than Trumps Presidency!
And this surprises anyone how? He attacks any and everything that goes against him.
The Electors must demand to review TRUMP’S TAX RETURNS prior to voting to determine the
extent of the RUSSIAN CONNECTION. If he won’t release them then no vote.
What is he hiding? You don’t get to be President by hiding crucial information from the voters.
Well, since you’re convinced that trump is going to manipulate the government even more than Bush and Cheney did, then you or somebody else is going to have to tell them first how the government works. They don’t know. It’s pretty hard to competely manipulate everything and all the moving parts involved when you don’t even know they exist.
Not manipulate. Strong-arm and intimidate.
Trump is already getting the MIC in line by just tweeting about them and driving their stock prices through the floor (First Boeing, today, Lockheed, tomorrow? Who knows?) That is a POWERFUL control mechanism.
He will not have to use any of the levers of government like Bush/Cheney did (remember, they were experienced in government and surrounded themselves with other, experienced people) he will just bully and intimidate.
That is more effective than you think.
He also completely controls the Republican Party now. That give him immense power over all elected Republican officials.
Yeah I noticed the immense power Obama had over the Democratic party.
Fine you want to give him all kinds of immense power go ahead but even a GOP Congress doesn’t take being strongarmed well.
Whatever - I am hopeful. You’re not.
Not really. I’m a realist.
I plan for the worst, but hope for the best.
Hope won’t pay the rent, but a plan might, so I plan.
One thing that worries me about that is Trump electors spilling what we know to the targets of the investigation to help them cover the tracks.
Well don’t mind me saying this but for a realist you have assumed much.
I’m trying actively not to assume so much. Things are proving less solid than I thought.
Which is working for me.
No one should be scared of anything more than a Trump Presidency.
Unfortunately, I don’t think it can be stopped at this point, and any belief to the contrary is just messing with my already fragile emotions on this subject. I do see this:
The specter of so-called faithless electors - electors who vote for someone other than their pledged candidate - really only becomes potentially significant when the electoral vote tally is likely to be very close. In 2000, George W. Bush received 271 electoral votes, just one more than the 270 needed to win. Had just two Republican electors been persuaded to not vote for Bush (note: they wouldn’t have needed to vote for Gore, just for someone other than Bush), then the election would have gone to the U.S. House of Representatives to decide since no candidate would have had a majority. Had three or four Republican electors defected from Bush and voted for Gore for some reason, Gore would have been elected president in an entirely constitutional manner. But in most elections, dozens of electors would have to be persuaded to become faithless to actually impact the final outcome. In 2012, Barack Obama received 332 electoral votes, so 62 would have had to go rogue before Obama would have actually not been reelected.on this site: https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Electoral-College-have-the-power-to-reject-Trump-or-any-candidate-for-that-matter-if-enough-electors-decided-to-change-their-vote. But as noted above, it would require a large number of Republican electors to switch, and that seems unlikely at best.So, to answer the question, it’s possible that a few Republican electors could refuse to vote for Trump. If the election is a landslide in either direction, it’s maybe a little more likely that one elector here or there would “make a statement” and vote for someone else, knowing that it wouldn’t actually affect the outcome. But if the electoral vote count is close in either direction, I would not expect any Republican elector - someone who is by definition going to be strongly dedicated to the GOP’s success - to risk giving the election to Hillary Clinton, or even to deny Trump the presidency if he did indeed win the most popular votes. For the Electoral College to do that in such a conspiratorial manner would probably provoke a legitimate constitutional crisis, which would be far worse for the U.S. than a Trump presidency would be by any reckoning.
Um, Clinton needs 37 more?
I’ve gone back and forth about that.
I’ve decided I’m fearless. It certainly beats having Trumpski as POTUS.
We did this recently with Bush not being the guy in charge (he didn’t have the chops to be POTUS, let’s face it).
This also has Cheney fingerprints, which is a horrid, absolutely terrible thing.
Your avatar doesn’t show up for me, either. It does appear on your profile page.
While I am pleased that a few electors are showing concern for the Russia/Trump conspiracy, I have no illusions whatsoever that anything of substance will come of it. The is too much momentum for and vested interests in Trump’s ascendancy to the office of President. The republican party is now wholly committed to corporate greed over the best interests of the country.
I am afraid that the swiftness of the damage to the body politic from the impending Republican apocalypse will overwhelm contemporaneous public awareness and any countervailing political forces. By the time the average Joe Sixpack understands what’s going on (if he ever really does and/or gives a shit), it may well be too late to do anything about it. We’re screwed with a capital F.
Trump doesn’t trust our intelligence services? Hell, the son of a bitch doesn’t even understand the concept of intelligence.