My grandparents came here apparently illegally. Both migrated to Detroit at the invitation of Henry Ford to participate in America’s success. Both migrated as children of immigrants, just before the first World War. Neither earned a “legal” income for decades - my grandmother didn’t become “legal” until she had to in the 40s. I still have her application for citizenship, complete with her “don’t you dare fuck with me face” photo.
My friend, I appreciate your right/wrong, yes/no viewpoint re The Law, it’s very Germanic and that’s my heritage. But the reality is that Trump’s promises about job growth cannot be accomplished without immigration. We don’t select immigrants, for the most part they’re self-selecting. “Extreme Vetting” means…nothing at all. What’s important is education and opportunity.
If we don’t offer opportunity, then nothing else matters, America won’t be a destination. Do you feel America offers opportunity?
That’s false. Here’s a discussion by a skilled trades guy.
“MIXING THE MUD: A Working Man’s Views on Illegal Immigration, Tricks of The Trade by Karl Kiefer Just about anyone in the construction trades can attest to the fact that - if illegal aliens were not hired in the first place, then the availability of work for all of us documented Americans would increase. I’m one of those tradesmen whose livelihood has been disrupted by the influx of illegal aliens into this country. I have been fortunate to work in surroundings where contact with illegal aliens is common and where it is not. I say fortunate because, through first hand experience, I have observed the opposing viewpoints of this issue, as well as, the opinions of those who are not as acutely aware of it. My opinions are supported by both personal experiences and facts. Some of the information (personal experience) given here is factual, but extremely hard to verify. The parties involved would have to incriminate themselves in order to confirm it. Those parties, obviously, would be hesitant to kill the cash cow, so to speak, in the name of legality. I’ve personally heard contractors and builders state that the reason they hire illegal immigrants is because they can’t find Americans that will do the work. This smoke screen is a ruse used by dishonest employers trying to divert our attention away from their illegal activities. The fact is, there are plenty of Americans who want to, and will, work. The obvious question is - why are illegal aliens being hired to do these jobs if there are already U.S. citizens ready, willing, and able to do them? The short answer is greed. Many employers in the construction industry are notorious for this. Undocumented workers are used in order to reduce labor costs in the areas of workers’ compensation and liability insurance, unemployment insurance, and “lower than prevailing rate” wages.”
It’s greed. By pimping for illegals, you are helping the contractors drive high-quality American workers out of the workforce. Until 20 years ago, these were jobs Americans did, and wanted to do. Not every man wants to work in an office. Some want to work with their hands. Today, the illegals have driven out the good American workers, and replaced them with shoddy crap work.
When ICE is freed from the shackles that Obama and his idiot ideas put on their enforcement, you will see a lot of enforcement at worksites. I’m hoping that American skilled trades workers displaced by these illegals will be out there with their mobile phones. Because the cheating, lying, faking, and other illegals-caused actions take jobs from American workers. They’ll be coming for their jobs.
That is one MAJOR reason no WWC or BWC voter votes D any more. The WWC know that the D Party pimps for illegals. It’s the illegals or the WWC. The Dems went with the illegals. Over the next 4 years, the stupidity of this choice will be more and more clear.
Nicky-nick-nick has distinct troll-like tendencies, has been around for years, and one thing I can never forgive it for is the unwarranted appropriation of one of my favorite FT characters.
This is really what it’s all about: grievance politics. This wallowing in self-pity, looking for scapegoats, and wanting to inflict pain on whoever is available to feel less insecure…like kicking the dog because the boss got mad at you. This streak of sadism in Trump’s supporters has been notable from the beginning.
Actually the game was not on FOX News, it was on FOX sports. And they did allow a beer commercial that was very pro-immigrant. I think that’s because it was about beer, so it fit in with the football theme, etc. But no reason to show the wall in a commercial, that’s a little too political. It’s a football game, not a news and opinion show.
I have my doubts. I agree the construction trade is one where undocumented workers are in fact taking jobs Americans want. But that will NOT stop under Trump, because the way you stop it is to go after the employers, not the workers. Trump won’t be doing that, especially since HE had a habit of using such work forces on his projects big time. If you raid a site and just toss out undocumented workers, they will just be replaced by undocumented workers. Endless cycle. But employers make campaign contributions, etc. They won’t be going after them. So you will have just a waste of money with endless “remove and replace” at jobsites. I know because I am a union contractor here in NYC, and I see this happen on non-union sites all the time, and the employers never get touched.
Yes, but there was a reason for that. They wanted to show that white people (Irish, Italians, Polish, etc.) were treated as “scum” in the past, that garners sympathy. Much smarter way of doing it.
Kind of like All in the Family. They made the bigot out to be more of a comic fool than a hateful jerk. If you make him a hateful fool, other hateful fools actually get off on it. But make him look like a fool, and many instead think “jeeez, do I really sound like that?”. And I recall seeing parents (friends and family) that actually started to change their thinking after that.
Agreed, but its’ still a silly reference rooted in bigotry (against whites as well). If I walk into a traffic court and see all the people there, I don’t say “look at all the illegals”. Death Row inmates are not called “illegals”. Murder suspects are not called “illegals”. Yet they are all breaking the law.
Criminals get referred to by the crime. A speeder is a speeder, not an “illegal driver”. A murderer is not called an “illegal stabber”. He/she is called a “murderer”. Yet that “illegal” activity is FAR worse than the people you call “illegal”.
The crime is not having proper papers. They are undocumented workers or undocumented immigrants.
I’ve also never heard the owners who hire these people called “illegals”. Why is that?
Tena, if you can please check this out. Hate to say it, but I knew a couple of people in this film. I saw it when it was first out but not since then, but I’m thinking it might be available through one of the public library services. I have thought about it often. I didn’t realize it was on TV; didn’t have one at all back then. http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/theworkers/film.html
O that looks really good. I’ll see if we can find it. Thank you.
People can pretend that these men and the women who come into the country to work are taking jobs from Americans but nobody prevented Americans from starting their own lawn services but there weren’t any until immigrants started them here, for one example.
They want to work and they will work if given a chance. They should be treated like all the rest of the workers in this country because they pay taxes for nothing. It’s taken from their paychecks too.
And I co-sign about @mrcomments that is extremely well put.
