Discussion for article #236487
I am missing something I’m sure. What court is in a position to order the woman to consent to an elective procedure? Why is she ordered to a court in the first place?
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New Rule for TPM: If you’re going to talk about cutting penises, you SHALL provide the full story such that we can understand what’s going on. I know you’re just in the business of blurbing us, but come on…that article leaves everything entirely unexplained. Is the state really trying to order a circumcision by jailing a mother? Are there health reasons in this particular situation? What the fuck is going on? Does daddy want him cut and mommy doesn’t, but daddy has legal custody? You tell us nothing other than “welp, looks like the court now thinks it can order dick surgeries at whim.” This just seems like complete crazy talk from the one or two facts actually provided here and the absolute lack of any context.
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/battle-florida-boys-circumcision-enters-federal-court-31115790
Frankly, I feel for her and have my own misgivings about the procedure…not to mention the 4 year old kid who gets to experience the wonders of dick pain…but she signed a contract, so it seems fairly open and shut.
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The question is whether a parent can sign and be held to a contract for a non-medical procedure for a third party.
There’s no medical necessity for the operation. And a 4 years of age, the child is going to know what’s happening, and probably be terrified.
If the mother signed a contract to put in a nose-ring on the boy, would that too be enforceable? Until what age?
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I rather doubt the “open and shut” part. Contracts are not unbreakable, and one or the other party is allowed to change his/her/its mind, but usually there will be some penalty to pay for doing so. But state courts have apparently already ruled in the father’s favor. The wrinkle, though, is that doctors have been reluctant to proceed without the mother’s consent, and they are also wary of anti-circumcision protesters.
It appears that she was jailed not because she refused to give her consent, as the TPM article seems to say, but because she had refused to show up in court at all and went into hiding with the child. She was jailed for contempt of court for defying the orders of the state courts.
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It seems to me that in this case, the mother withdrew her consent after reviewing the available information. The father just wants it done because “that’s what people do,” which IMO is as bad an excuse as one could have. I don’t see any reason why his baseless wishes should prevail over the mother’s informed decision.
And by the way, contract law applies to property. I don’t see why it should apply to a child, who in my opinion should be represented by a child welfare advocate and his own attorney.
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Well, and it’s one thing to agree to something like this before the child is born, and something else again to go through with it once you have held the flesh-and-blood child in your arms. Still, this couple has been fighting since she became pregnant, and you have to wonder if this issue has not just become a proxy for other things, with the child being used as a pawn. Poor kid.
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I’ve seen that recently but this story seems to have come straight from the AP, so we can’t blame TPM for the holes in the plot.
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That is the question I was asking myself. Insisting on this procedure is so 1930/1940 ish…
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Unless it’s a religious matter, and that promises an even bigger can of worms. But with these two parents, that’s the very least of this boy’s worries growing up.
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With parents like this, the kid’s life is fucked no matter what.
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Sounds like the shmucks in this case is not the literal one in question.
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The parents share custody. They signed a legal parental agreement after the birth, and in the agreement the parents agreed to get the child circumcised. After the legal paperwork was signed the mother balked and ran, but the father still wants his son circumcised. The state has ruled that the mother cannot refuse to follow through on a parenting agreement that she signed. She was jailed for refusing to make court dates and illegally taking the child away from the father. There is no way she wins this case. At least that is what I gathered from the rather confusing article.
Edit: I should read further down the comments to see if anyone else has already answered. Sorry.
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It can’t be that barbaric, I’d remember it. Wait, it’s possible I blocked it out. I need to get on Montel’s show ASAP.
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Despite this glans-ing blow they should stay frenulums…
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Of course, given the fact that the CDC endorses circumcision saying that the health benefits outweigh the risks (as of December 2014), maybe her uninformed decision shouldn’t hold up against the balance of the father’s informed decision and a legal contract.
Seriously, you don’t know anything about the parents’ motivations. And just because you disagree with a procedure, doesn’t mean that medical science, or the courts, have to agree with you.
The guidelines do not outright call for circumcision of all male newborns, since that is a personal decision that may involve religious or cultural preferences, Dr. Jonathan Mermin, director of the CDC’s National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD and TB Prevention, told the Associated Press.
But “the scientific evidence is clear that the benefits outweigh the risks,” Mermin said.
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Oh, geez, can you be serious? You think another lawyer should jump in here? What is this world coming to? As the previous commenter said, you pulled motivations of the parents out of nowhere, and the CDC recommends circumcision, probably because of the decrease Of cervical cancer in partners of circumcised men.
What will happen when these two “adults” have to make other decisions?
These dopes need mediation and if that doesn’t work the poor kid should be placed for adoption and end up in a sane family.
Leave the kids dick alone!!
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This may be true enough for newborns. For adults circumcision is a much more risky and potentially long term painful process, as friends of mine would attest. At what point does the risk factor for an older infant or child outweigh the advantages of a purely elective procedure? I’m not claiming anything, just asking the question, as I don’t think it’s a clearcut either/or as a child grows up. I can understand her second thoughts, her hesitation and her wish that the kid could now choose for himself, but think there’s also a good bit of “I want my way!” on both their parts. Growing up with a foreskin isn’t the worst thing that can happen to a kid, nor is circumcision as a newborn. But this kind of battle isn’t a good thing no matter how it comes out.
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