Discussion: Barr Vs. Mueller: Two Very Different Stories Of What The Special Counsel Found

Delivering justice was never Mueller’s job. His job was an investigation and that’s what he did - he investigated.

He was never supposed to save the nation. It’s unfortunate that people took all the joking about that seriously.

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My belief is McConnell needs to be impeached.
If he falls so will the Republican Senate.

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I’d settle for having Rand Paul’s grumpy neighbor kick Mitch’s ass on his front lawn, but maybe that’s just me.

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Barr v. Mueller: Two Very Different Stories Of What The Special Counsel Found

“Aaaand, we’re out of time. We’ll just have to leave it at that. Next up, two very different viewpoints on contrails.”

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Mueller could not get the conspirators in the Trump campaign to tell the truth about their conspiracy. So, there was not enough evidence on the record to pursue that inquiry.

Mueller would not indict a sitting president (because DOJ policy says he could not) of obstruction of justice and so left the political process with that task. He did have enough evidence to prosecute if it wasn’t for the DOJ policy.

The problem with all of this is a sitting President can do any criminal thing he/she wants–including murder–and the only remedy is for the President to be impeached and removed from office and then prosecuted for the crime, including murder.

I’m sure the “founding fathers” gathered in the hereafter to discuss this misunderstanding of their stated aims: That no one, including the Chief Executive, is above the law. And, that those elected to serve should do just that and impeach and remove a criminal President, regardless of political affiliation in this very political act. These men, who had the courage to rebel from a king and Parliament, expected their successors to also have the courage to stand up for right and the rule of law.

They probably wouldn’t have bothered with their war of rebellion and instituting a new form of government if they thought it would come to this. After all, a tyrant across the sea is better than a tyrant in your midst.

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Yeah, I’m gonna go with the Special Counsel’s version of what he found, what he meant, why he did what he did and said what he said, and his intention that Congress needs to take it from here.

Sorry, Billy Bar, but you and the crime boss just don’t pass the smell test … or the truth test or the logic test.

Impeach both the motherfuckers.

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— because Mitch McConnell and the GOP control the senate.

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And they are just about as corrupt and dismissive of the Constitution and American democracy as Trump is.

Maybe more so, since some of them, McConnell included, know what the Constitution actually says and the way the government is supposed to work for the American people and not just a small segment of it that benefits from their power grabs.

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I am not sure what I am missing. I am at work and I am trying to follow all this as best I can, but I cannot pore over every document and I cannot watch videos. I am interested in what you are saying, but cannot connect all the dots.

If Barr is squelching all other investigations (or potentially will) and Mueller never laid a glove on Don Jr, Rudy, Ivanka, etc…what are these other investigations? It has been months and months if not years since most of these acts occurred, what significance does the “fresh memories” hold? Are there any co-conspirators? I thought Mueller said the DOJ directive prohibited listing Chump as a co-conspirator.

I would like to see the good news side of this, and you evidently see one…but your first post and reply quotes don’t seem to unveil what the good side is. Not trying to be obtuse.

Thanks

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That may be what the OLC memo says but that conclusion is based on the false premise “that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting President of wrongdoing.” That is simply not true. The Constitution provides a political process to impeach and remove from office the president for the commission of “high crimes or misdemeanors.” That is the grant of a permissive process to the Legislative Branch but it does not negate the right of the judicial system to prosecute the president for the commission of crimes. The Legislative Branch cannot prosecute and imprison a president, it can merely remove him from office. Similarly, the Judicial Branch can prosecute and imprison a president, but it cannot remove him from office. They are different processes with different burdens of proof and different remedies. They should not be treated as mutually exclusive, with the political process nullifying the judicial process.

@established_1781

That is an easily refutable assumption. Recent history (Clinton, and perhaps to some extent even Nixon) shows that a president can continue to function while Congress conducts impeachment hearings, investigations, charges and a trial. If a president feels that he cannot function while Congress is involved in the impeachment process then he can simply invoke the 25th Amendment until the conclusion of the impeachment.

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Translation: The President’s obstruction of the investigation was successful.

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Why? The McConnell Senate won’t convict Barr any more than they’d convict Trump.

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You’re cute.

Senators may not be impeached, but they may be expelled from the Senate.

Here’s the list of GOP Senators who would vote to expel McConnell:

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Oh pleeease,

It was a political and narrow investigation. So sick of Bernie bros and their ignorance. Americans want and need justice. Mueller and the Republicans did not deliver it. An investigation as you say, not on the pursuit of justice is disturbing,

Wait - are you talking about me? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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He doesn’t know you very well, does he? :joy: :joy: :joy:

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Nope - definite newbie. hahahahahahahahahaha

Doesn’t know TPM at all it seems.

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“We determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes.”

God damn! Heaven forbid the pig be fully accountable for his actions based on our uncomfortable conclusions. We won’t speak truth to power.

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Mueller’s statement is a stinging rebuke to Barr and the whole GOP spin operation, and that fact needs to be hammered home to the American public. He could have said “we left the decision to the Attorney General regarding obstruction”, but he didn’t say that. Instead he points to impeachment as the proper course. He could have said, like the GOP spinners, that “there was no evidence for collusion”, instead he describes it as “insufficient evidence”. He could have said, like Barr, that there were lots of reasons for deciding not to pursue an obstruction charge – instead he points squarely at the DOJ policy on not indicting a sitting president. He didn’t have to reiterate the report’s statement regarding non-exoneration – but he did. The American public needs to see the GOP spin machine for what it is – an attempt to cover up the unpatriotic actions of the White House occupant. I’m afraid instead they will say “well, I guess we’re done with that”.

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That’s a long list.

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