Discussion for article #230244
I think if Latimer would have gone to the couple and express her discomfort in dealing with them, and let the couple “fire” her, then she would have more of a defense.
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Bigots always try to use their “religious beliefs” in an attempt to rationalize their bigotry. They pick and choose the parts of the Christian Bible to justify whatever ignorance, fear, and prejudices they have about same sex couples.
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So, as Marriage Equality moves toward becoming the law of the land, we are now on to the next phase–the defense of public accommodation laws in the face of calls for the right of religious freedom to discriminate in the public marketplace. I don’t think the fact that these folks are ordained ministers is really a defense if they are offering their services for sale to the general public. Perhaps if they were limiting sales to their own congregants, that might fly. But in the America of the Roberts court, who knows?
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As frustrating as it is, it sounds like the ministers are legitimately exempted if what they were being asked to do is perform a wedding ceremony that went against their religious beliefs. That’s fine with me. I don’t see any reason why the marriage ceremony officiating itself has to be performed by someone if they think it’s against their religion. There are others who can and will officiate and as long as the state isn’t discriminating in who they allow to get those licenses to perform marriages, then let the religio-bigots have their little sealed pocket of reality resistance. In fact, the law may cover ordained ministers and religious officials without them having to get the license that, say, Uncle Jimmy got when he performed your sister’s wedding. That might be a point of legal attack itself, but it’s probably sufficiently broad that you couldn’t argue any one religion was getting any preference such that it violated the Establishment Clause in some way.
It gets a lot muddier in terms of the wedding planning services part though…which is more akin to the bigot who refused to make the cakes in that other story a few weeks ago.
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LibTARDS, ReLIgious FREEDoms IS InscrIBed in OUR Constitution. SusAN LAtimer"S hate OF the GAY is PROtectED by THEse RIghts. When IS eNOUGh ENOght? She ALREaDy has TO WOrk wiTH blacK and MexICANs With CALVEs lIKe melons FROm BRingiNG SaCKS oF MARIJUANA over THE border. STOP GAY HITLER BULLies froM LITERALLY RAPINg CHRIStianity!!11!!!one!!!1!!
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I’m completely accepting of gay marriage but cannot understand for the life of me why any couple, gay or straight, would want to force someone to plan, cater or run their wedding ceremony, when that person has displayed an active disinterest in your ceremony.
This day is meant to be a celebration. Why would you want it spoiled by someone who had no interest in making it a special day for you?
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I’m not clear if “wedding planning” services are the same thing as performing a marriage ceremony. I never had a fancy wedding so I don’t know exactly what services these folks actually perform for money. Clearly, they don’t have to officiate at a Gay wedding if it is against their religous beliefs to do so. But arranging venues and ordering catering services etc. I think is a different matter all together.
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It’s not just about same-sex couples … it’s pretty much about whatever makes them feel superior to anyone who doesn’t believe the same as they do. (And that would be anyone who actually reads the Bible, rather than reading into it things that they wish were there.)
Coming up: Thousands upon thousands of christianists will get themselves ordained on the internet, so they can hide behind “religion” to discriminate all they want.
Accompanied, of course, by red states passing laws saying anybody can discriminate against anybody if that’s part of their sincerely held religious beliefs.
It’s a post-Hobby Lobby world, folks. It’s okay to hate on the gay folks all you want (and who knows who else can be victimized, thanks to SCOTUS?).
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Business opportunity for a gay Episcopal Priest with excellent taste.
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Indeed. I thought that’s what I said.
Does the website clearly state their refusal to work with gay people?
Seems the height of business foolhardiness as wedding-bound lesbians of my experience spend wedding cash like drunken sailors drink.
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I think just making a big media stink and exposing what religious bigots the “Minister” is should be enough. These religious exemption laws are a freaking joke! Anybody can claim to be a “minister”, the title has no legal meaning or value!
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Man, at least with racism, these bigot fucks know the clock is ticking and they’ll someday be outnumbered in this country. With the homophobia and anti-LGBT bigotry, it just makes it all that much harder to tolerate the bigots because they smugly know they’ll never have to worry about the tables turning on them.
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Bigotry is cured one funeral at a time. The homophobe demographic is “Waiting For God”
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My wife used a wedding planner (geez, 20+ years ago). My wife was a teacher and didn’t have time to do all the planner herself. A wedding planner arranges for a lot of the details, such as location arrangements, flowers, and other similar things. My wife says she couldn’t have done it all without the planner. Planners have nothing to do with performing the ceremony, although I bet the AZ planners may do both as part of a package. Those two services need to be split.
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“You are oppressing me by highlighting my odious beliefs.” Cancel this bigot’s tax subsidies, if any, and move on.
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If the planners don’t take any kind of tax benefits, or claim to be charitable then really they should be able to say no. However the the couples should have the courtesy to speak up in the beginning to tell the planner they are a gay couple.
To wait until the planning is well along then “mention” the other person by name is really kind of deceitful putting the planner in an awkward position and the customer in an even more awkward situation to have the stress and contention so close to the wedding.
I believe there are plenty of planners, bakers, dress makers, and venues that would be glad to participate in marriage between gay couples that this shouldn’t happen.
These situations smack of deception and attention getting on the part of both parties. It doesn’t have to become national news or drama unless the parties involved want it to become that.
This is childish behavior I can’t imagine why anyone would enter into this kind of contract without knowing all the details.
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Yes–what else would they say? “I’m taking this position because I’m a bigot”?
Nope, they always blame God–“It’s all His idea that I’m acting like a jerk!”
If the afterlife they imagine were true, they would be in so much trouble when they finally kicked.
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