Discussion for article #232422
In Oscar Micheauxâ silent film âWithin Our Gatesâ the character Efram thought he was the white manâs best friend too â until they lynched him just to have something to do while they waited for the man he falsely accused of murdering a white plutocrat to be apprehended.
A law-abiding citizen should have full confidence that a fireman, a police officer, a doctor, etc., will provide the utmost care and protection, regardless of that citizenâs sexual orientation. Do we really want a Fire Chief who publicly compares legal sexual relations between consenting adults to bestiality?
I live in Atlanta, and I sure donât.
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Does anybody know exactly what the passages in question said?
I would suspect that heâll lose the federal case because as I understand it fire chiefs and police chiefs serve at the pleasure of the mayor. However, it is possible that said passage(s) were simply religious opinions in which case he would be likely to win his case, since the book is sited as the reason for his firing.
So that brings us back to the beginning. What did he say?
Reed stressed at the time that he didnât terminate Cochran for his religious beliefs, but because Cochran published the book without his permission and because its passages on homosexuality â including comparing it to a âperversionâ like bestiality â could make the city vulnerable to discrimination complaints.
A few followup questions.
- Is it against city policy for Cochran to publish a book without permission?
- If yes, is it an offense for which he should have been fired?
- Does the book really make the city vulnerable to discrimination complaints?
The answer to that final question the most important. If the answer is yes, I support the firing. If not, I donât support it because people should not be fired for their beliefs (even if I happen to find those beliefs repellent).
As an aside, this illustrates a problem I have with journalism like this. The article tells us what Reed says are the reasons for the firing, but it doesnât help me assess the truth of what he said.
Followup: The first two linked articles add another reason for the firing: Cochran was not supposed to talk about the investigation while it was ongoing but did so anyway. That indicates a lack of judgement.
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The answer to the last question is âyesâ. It opens the city to complaints from the gay community (and especially the LGBT enclaves in the city) that fires were not put out in due time because of the Fire Chiefâs on the record beliefs. Whether or not he would do such a thing is not important because it is the perception of bigotry which means that the city could face tons of litigation based upon that.
Go back a couple of years and there were several incidents where the police force in Atlanta targeted several gay nightclubs. If I recall correctly, the city was still sued over the arrests and the targeting of the business despite no such statements from the Police Chief in the city. So, having those sentiments on the record no only could lead to more cases, but could easily be used to sway a jury and make them side with the plaintiff and not the city.
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I distinctly remember the part of the bible that mandates that believers must publish books insulting sinners. I believe itâs between the part about not casting stones and the part about brushing yourself off and moving on if non-believers donât want to listen to you.
So clearly this guy is just following his religious beliefs and not being a total a-hole who doesnât even understand the words in his own holy book. After all, why did God give us free will if it wasnât to prevent other people from using it?
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Ah yes, Erick Erickson, he of the âWho told you that you were a cub? Youâre a bear!â stone-throwing crowd.
Heâs going to lose, lose, lose. Employment lawyer, here. His opinions, religious or not, are an indication that he is willing to engage in discrimination against LGBT folk. Thatâs illegal in Atlanta. He cannot be trusted to run the department in a manner that comports with the law. Very simple, actually.
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Did you hear the one about the guy whoâs killed his mother and father and goes before the sentencing judge to ask for mercy because heâs an orphan? I guess you have.
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The mayor is correct!
This bigot needs to go!
He can wrap himself in whatever crap he believes. As a society, we need to trust the fire chief will do his job without the thought of him giving us a religious discrimination test prior to responding to an emergency!!
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True. Doesnât Garcetti v. Ceballors also likely play a role here? Wouldnât his 1st Amendment rights be curtailed because the comments were in connection with his job? If so, you have to love the irony that Garcetti was decided by the five (Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia, Alito, and Thomas) against the dissents of Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer.
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âSince God made sex for procreation, he only intended it to be between a man and a women.â
âWhen a manâs eyes lack spiritual discipline it will lead him to lust for women, lust for other men, covetousness, idolatry and all kind of desires.â
âThe seventeen works of the flesh described in Galatians 5:19â21 are: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, envying, drunkenness, and reveling. Uncleanness is the opposite of purity; including sodomy, homosexuality, lesbianism, pederasty, bestiality, and all other forms of sexual perversion.â
If thatâs what he said(wrote) and all of what he said(wrote), then he should not have been fired and should win his case, because he was fired for being a Christian. Any law that says itâs okay to fire him for that should be changed.
heâs got a legitimate pointâŚyou canât discriminate against discriminators. Thatâs discriminatory.
I am employed in a government agency. Every year I have to take ethics class as well as sexual harassment and workplace violence tutorials. Every thing the former chief from getting a book deal without prior approval from upper management to proselytising on the job has done violates the law.
im sure the nice fire captain would also not mind if his boss wrote a book and distributed it at city meetings on the merits of white supremacy. im sure the fire captain would have no issue with a person who is his boss writing a book making it known they think christians are weak minded followers who can not think and analyze the world for themselves so they need some preacher to do it for them. of course he would welcome all those things because we know these christian types are so open to fairness for all.