Discussion for article #244422
The Post Office has stopped delivering mail??
What do these guys have to do to get arrested? Smoke pot?
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Well, at least this gives some context and makes the “kid gloves” approach they’ve been taking make more sense. They’re afraid that dong what they should or would have wanted to do to remove these idiots will result in violence not at the site of the media circus, but against innocent people around town who happen to be federal employees.
Turn black.
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So the Feds are even more cowed and craven than I thought. That’s impressive.
Stick a fork in the Federal government’s authority across the American west—when a lawfully-constituted government is literally afraid to enforce its own laws in large swaths of its own territory, the only conclusion is that the rebel insurgents—which is exactly what the Bundyites are—have already won.
Which means, in turn, it’s open season on National Parks, National Forests, National Monuments, and every other square inch of U.S. government land across the country, and the brave men and women who work at those places. The Bundyites can threaten violence against whoever they want without repercussion or consequences. That was proven first in Nevada, and now in Oregon, with nary a peep out of the Feds, whose only response has been to jump into bed and pull the covers over their heads while they lie there quivering in fear of offending armed white people.
Given that ultimately the President of the United States is charged with seeing to it that laws are enforced, this buck stops on Obama’s desk.
Let’s see how this plays out in the long term. My guess is that these guys “declare victory” after a week or so and go home, only to have the doorbell ring with a team of FBI agents ready to cart them off without much fanfare.
As an aside, imagine if there were reports of Muslim or black men parking overnight outside outside federal employees homes? I wonder what would happen then?
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Mike, with all due respect, this is exactly what dozens of commenters here, at DK, at WM, and other progressive blogs were confidently asserting was going to happen in the wake of Nevada. “Just wait, once tempers cool, the Feds will swoop in and grab Bundy, his family, and all those clowns aiming assault weapons at BLM employees.”
As of today, exactly squat has been done to Cliven Bundy or any of the armed thugs who supported him, either to recover the money he owes the taxpayers, or to punish those who directly threatened federal employees with firearms.
There isn’t a single particle of evidence you can point to to justify your or anybody else’s optimism that the Feds have the will or the intent to do squat in Oregon. To the contrary, everything points to the Federal government being completely intimidated and thoroughly neutered.
The only hope we can hang onto is that the Feds have been monitoring the rebel groups across the west for many months, and have a grand plan for a multi-state coordinated sweep of insurgents. That’s a damn forlorn hope at this point.
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They also should have disabled the restrooms —
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This Bundy-aligned militia doesn’t seem well regulated.
Why do they hate the Constitution so?
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So , the officials knew it was all planned .
I can understand the logic. These militia guys are hotheads, delusional and have guns. That’s a tragedy looking for a place to happen and I think the Feds have point: don’t give them that place. So OK…let them hang out, look out for Federal Employees and when the cold and the loss of attention bring the Bundy Boyz out of that refuge then make your move.
That’s not how they handled it at the Bundy Ranch. They let them get away with it there. That’s why they have the problem at the Refuge. If they handle it that way again they’ll just have another incident somewhere else and sooner or later a shootout is going to happen. The Federal Government of the United States cannot allow itself to be Catch 22’ed or placed in a Mexican Standoff. It can not allow that.
There must be arrests, not necessarily right now and their must be justice. If not this is going to keep on happening until action is forced. Probably by the deaths of folks. The American people are being ripped of by the Feds and are being placed in danger by them. Has to stop.
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Really? You think federal employees at a wildlife sanctuary signed up for hazardous duty? It was extremely responsible for the government to take proactive steps to protect their employees from threatened violence or hostage situations.
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Lord, I’m not taking the employees on the ground to task—they’re the ones being harassed, shot, and murdered. I’m talking specifically about federal law enforcement, which includes the FBI, Homeland Security, and the Justice Department, ALL of whom are ultimately headquartered in Washington, D.C. That’s where the apparent disinterest in protecting these brave Forest Service, BLM, and National Parks employees originates.
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I live about an hour away from the Refuge, and like most people here I want the Bundys et al gone, NOW! But let’s look at history for a moment to better understand why the Feds are backing down.
First there was Ruby Ridge and the feds got handed their heads in a basket by the media and by their Congressional watchdogs.
Second we had Waco where crazies destroyed themselves after a standoff that had been relatively peaceful until the last days. Janet Reno and the DOJ got handed their heads again by a disgruntled media and the public outcry.
Now we come to 2014 and the Bundy Ranch debacle. The DOJ, BLM, and the State of Nevada do not want replays of the first two, especially with all the flack about gun control going on and the racist attitude of the terrorists involved. So they decide not to make martyrs of the clowns with guns, keep everyone safe, and back off. Unfortunately they set a precedent that is very, very wrong in this nation at this time.
Finally, by this time we have had a year of rioting over police brutality and killings of African-Americans that has caused people to wonder if white supremacists have more rights than others and if this kind of thing in Burns is acceptable since it was allowed in Nevada. So, now the government has a problem: go in and administer the kind of justice that will make martyrs of these racist, white supremacy terrorists or let it play out and hope the media gets bored and leaves so that these cowards can slink away without having a gun battle that they want.
Personally, I think the way the government has acted in Nevada laid the groundwork for this mess now in Burns, and until someone says “Enough, these people are terrorists and we do not negotiate with terrorists”, and then goes in and arrests them all, we will see more and more of these kinds of actions. Sadly, I am afraid that what you will see is a message that if you are white and have a gun, claim to be pro-Americans when you are not, and are so ignorant of the law while blinded by greed, that you will be able to get away with armed insurrection, kill with impunity, and destroy this nation while the corporations you so dearly love take over for your form of government. Idiocracy at its best is our future if the government does not take decisive action now in Burns, or anywhere else that armed traitors try to take over government land or buildings or threaten government employees. If you create a precedent, you reap its rewards. If you try to create armed insurrection, you should also reap those rewards - jail or death.
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Kinda stupid, aren’t you?
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You want “shock and awe”? That will only cause more people to support the terrorists.
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Well, then point us to any hard information that refutes my contention.
At no point have I advocated going in with all-out military assaults. There’s a vast difference between going in with gunships, napalm, and heavy armor on one hand and doing exactly nothing on the other.
• Has the Federal government expropriated any financial or property assets of Cliven Bundy?
• Has the IRS placed any liens on his property? Have they garnisheed any of his income?
• Has the Federal government arrested any of the individuals who aimed loaded weapons at BLM employees in Nevada?
• Has the Federal government put into effect any kind of cordon or perimeter outside the refuge in Oregon restricting access? By now it’s common knowledge that a number of the insurgent occupiers have been coming and going freely—are you saying that it takes military-level action to apprehend these thugs?
• Has the Federal government taken any action against those levying threats against government employees in Oregon?
So far, the answer to all of these is “no.” Doing the affirmative does not involve military-level assault—it involves basic law enforcement procedures that local, state, and federal LEOs carry out on a routine basis for a wide number of situations, especially when it involves minorities.
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People are generally not intimidated by such. They simply go underground until they can figure out some other way to be terrorists.
I do understand where bluestatedon gets his attitude about federal enforcement agencies, the FBI has, outside of TV serials, has shown themselves really competent at entrapment and luring simple minds into incriminating actions. Other than that, wasted money.
Feds are obviously trying to avoid adding to the “Ruby Ridge”, “Waco” mythology for these guys. Although drunken idiots with guns are clearly a serious & scary thing, our best approach now is to let them reveal how silly they look to everyone. They WANT a gunfight, so give them yawns & laughter instead.
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Or convert to Islam.
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Not sure whether you meant to write “incompetent” or not, but regardless I fervently hope that the seeming inaction by the Feds is masking exactly what you mentioned. The surveillance abilities of federal LEOs are significant, and it’s obvious that the Bundyite thugs are stupid. Being stupid, however, doesn’t mean they should be ignored.