Discussion for article #235311
The cop thought his cruiser was his taser. Heat of the moment.
13 Likes
I am not a trained law enforcement officer so maybe there’s something I’m missing, but I don’t see the necessity of running over the suspect as it does not appear he was in the immediate harming an innocent person, even preparing to commit suicide. Why not just run up behind him and taze him? That said, yes, it does sound like he needed to be stopped – but to (possibly) seriously maim him forever?
2 Likes
Marana, AZ is sort of a suburb of my home town of Tucson. The guy had a gun and he had fired a round from it. This time it looks like it was a situation where innocent bystanders were under threat and the suspect was getting close to a church… Even so this is a questionable maneuver.
2 Likes
“This officer made a split-second decision, and in retrospect, when all
the dust clears, I think we look at this and say, yeah, there’s things
we can learn from this,” Rozema continued, adding that everyone,
including the suspect, were safe.
Yes. We can learn thing from this. Primarily that police officer training
has become all but non-existant. So long as a cop has weapon of ANY kind, they’ll use it first and foremost. So long as a cop feels threatened in any way, they’ll use it first and foremost. And no, the suspect is not “safe.”
They’re no longer police officers trained to protect and serve; they’re now all just a bunch of vigilantes.
3 Likes
He had just fired a round, had put the gun to his head earlier, was pretty brazen walking around with a stolen gun while police circled and knew of multiple things the guy did during the day. This was never going to end well. I doubt this will generate much sympathy from most people.
The other cops were trying to de-escalate.
ETA: I’m not justifying this just pointing out that I doubt this will generate much outrage other than the “shock” factor.
Yes, this is not a simple case. If the cops had followed standard procedure, hemmed Valencia in, and confronted him, I’d guess that someone - Valencia, cop, bystander - would have ended up dead. Valencia would have started shooting, either at others or at himself. If the former, the cops would have shot and killed him, and would have been justified in doing so.
Weird actions taken here, but actually produced a good outcome.
5 Likes
the cop was saving him from being physically taken down. the ensuing chokehold technique could have been fatal.
2 Likes
OK. We’ll let you do that. You, carrying a weapon that is relatively close-range, get to “run up behind” someone who not only has a gun that could kill you in a split second, from a considerable distance, but who already has the gun out, loaded, and safety off, and has demonstrated that he’s not afraid to use it.
We expect our LEO’s to take some risks, but they’re not required to be suicidal.
3 Likes
Just an opinion, Mister Neutron. As I stated, I am not a trained law enforcement officer. No, I do not wish our officers to be suicidal. Thank you.
1 Like
Well, to paraphrase Bonnie Parker’s mother, “You try to use a taser against a guy with a gun and you won’t live long, honey.” 
Agreed, not sure what better nonlethal options they had. Hem him in, he could kill himself. Dart him like a rhino, he could still kill himself. Antiriot stuff like gas or beanbags, again, he kills himself no problemo. Tase him yourself, you and he both could die. This way he obviously had a chance to survive, because he did, and nobody else got hurt. Crude but effective, like an emergency tracheotomy; not elegant but maybe your only shot at a good outcome.
3 Likes
Wal Mart* sells pistols? I thought they limited their stock to long guns.
Albuquerque cops shot and killed a suicidal man who was threatening himself.
They also shot that homeless guy in the hills.
How could anyone possibly know the guy would survive getting hit by a 5000 pound vehicle. Do you think the police get training on this? Is there a way of driving a car that the odds of incapacitating the struck person are high but the likelihood of fatality is low?
A quick google search and I found a study of the the role of speed in the likelihood a pedestrian will survive being struck by a car. Car driving 20 mph: 95% chance of survival; 30 mph: 55%, 40 mph 15%. So how fast was the cop driving.
1 Like
They needed to take out an Anglo to keep the murdered minority ratio in line. Extra points for poverty and mental illness. And after the DA started an investigation they banished her from the case in court. New Mexico police have badges and uniforms and guns. They can/and do whatever they want.
1 Like
Afterwards did they take the guy and drag him into the driver’s seat so it looked like he drove over himself?
Guns or cars don’t kill but cops do?
Do you have some sort of point to make that’s relevant to anything I and others said? If you know of a foolproof way to handle the situation you don’t mention it. And if I endorsed this as the obvious tactic to use in any similar situation I guess I failed to say that in a way you could quote. Do you think I’m a reflexive cop-booster, I think they never do anything wrong? I’d like to see any evidence on that as well. Or would you be happier if I reflexively condemn every action every cop ever took? This guy was walking down the street, shooting a gun and very possibly shooting the people in the next passing car; he was an out-of-control lethal threat to himself and others. They could have shot the guy and never been questioned in that judgment, my friend. So just what exactly do you want to say to me?
This can not be the approved method or the new go to method. That was heinous.
I say look into the cop’s record that just came rushing in and decided to play hero. This is a guy with a hair trigger fulfilling his fantasies that the rational cops already on scene were handling or working on.
The thought of ramming that guy with a car and through a block wall would never have entered my mind. Its almost a miracle that the guy is alive. Yes, he needed policing, but I don’t see how this method can be considered acceptable or policy. For all the cop knew, there were children on the other side of that wall or anyone that he could’ve also crushed while he was playing supercop. To me, that makes the cop every bit as dangerous. Like just firing your weapon with a crowd of people around.
2 Likes