Discussion for article #232032
It is hard for any man to comment on this story because any comment contrary to the beliefs of the author is likely to earn the label “die-hard misogynist.”
Personally I don’t know enough about the actual evidence against either Allen or Cosby to venture a guess as to whether either is guilty. In the case of Cosby since he is never going to be tried, we will never know for sure, but a lot of smoke does seem to indicate something. In the case of Allen I find everybody involved on both sides to be pretty creepy. It is really hard to side with one set of creeps over another.
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It should be obvious why: In one case there are 20 women claiming they were violated, in the other there’s just one.
(That doesn’t necessarily mean Woody is innocent. But it makes it much more difficult to believe the story if nobody else comes forward since pedophiles are almost always serial offenders.)
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“[T]he believability scale rather than a sober assessment of the evidence, or else Allen would be just as screwed as Cosby is.” It’s unclear what the difference between “believability scale” and “sober assessment” is. My sober assessment is that Woody Allen in strong likelihood is falsely accused. The evidence against him just isn’t there. The evidence against Cosby is abundant. Those whose “believability scale” always tilts in favor of every claimed victim may differ.
Calling Allen a “sexist” in the headline is absurd, considering the strong feminist themes in his work.
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Allen’s career is sailing along because he’s been one of the country’s most prolifically great artists since the 1960s.
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Also Woody Allen has NEVER been known as America’s Dad. Instead he’s been known as the guy who married his wife’s adopted daughter for over 20 years. So he’s set the bar pretty high for himself to really fall from any great height at this point.
But more specifically, I think it is obvious that the number and nature of allegations against Cosby are what makes it different. The court of public opinion has very rightly judged Cosby to be guilty. Jury still (and maybe forever) out on Woody Allen.
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It helps that Allen’s ex-wife is fairly eccentric herself and her career was largely revived by Woody Allen vehicles. Her allegations and those of her children have been countered from other people who know the parties involved. Allen’s marriage to Previn was certainly odd, but he also had little interaction with her as she was growing-up.
The accusations against Cosby have been around for decades, but never widely revealed, apparently, because his star power and image. Unlike Allen, there are a huge number of accusers, his MO (drugging) is pretty consistent, and there’s no one who really has defended his behavior. Cosby’s comedy albums, pudding commercials and tv shows were integral to several generations of children and their families. Woody Allen was always a “niche” celeb. The cumulative evidence against Cosby is difficult to refute. It’s not like he was just a serial adulterer like Bob Hope, another beloved comic whose reputation has been tarnished–Hope made a lot of bad movies and let himself be used as a Vietnam War chess piece (soldiers were ordered to attend his shows; he also drugged the women.
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Answer:
Mia and Dylan Farrow: not credible.
Beverly Johnson and 20 more victims: credible.
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Two words as to why Woody is believed, Mia, Ronin. They would prefer to have Old Blue Eyes as Ronin’s dad. Believe that and they’ll tell you another.
This may be the most asinine article I have ever seen at TPM. Woody Allen sexist? How? Getting off scot-free? Getting off what?
Is the author trying to suggest a racial element here?
Woody Allen is still an extremely relevant artist that continues to produce (imho) great work. If the fact that his wife of many years was once the adopted daughter of his ex wife or unsubstantiated allegations from his ex wife bother you that much, so be it. What does any of this have to do with Bill Cosby? I can’t believe I actually read this garbage.
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Not to mention the details of each charge. In Cosby’s case, his many victims claim they were drugged, molested, and in some cases, raped. In the single incident that constitutes the charge against Allen, he is said to have touched his daughter inappropriately. While I agree with ronbyers that the Allen case is creepy from all angles, especially given the complications of Allen’s romance with Soon-Yi and Mia Farrow’s endless antagonism, the actual alleged crimes are simply not equivalent. Frankly, the entire premise of the article is preposterous.
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Maybe the world isn’t always fair?
Here’s one huge difference: While neither Cosby nor Allen have been convicted of anything, it’s a matter of public record that Bill Cosby paid one of his accusers to go away. That goes a long way towards establishing the credibility of Cosby’s alleged victims.
There’s no equivalent situation regarding Allen.
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It’s hard to believe that Amanda Marcotte believes what she wrote. The existence of 20 accusers, some of whom made their allegations many years ago and without knowledge of the others, all asserting a strikingly similar pattern of abuse, is a very different scenario from the one that Woody Allen faced – one accuser, one accusation, in the context of a bitter dispute with his clearly (even if justifiably) aggrieved ex-paramour, and then more than 20 years of marriage with no other accuser ever coming forward with any accusation that is even remotely similar. Stating a conclusion isn’t very persuasive when you fail to engage in the critical thought necessary to make the comparison seem accurate.
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Perhaps because the allegations against Allen have been shown to be made by a bitter flake named Mia Farrow, and that Dylan Farrow’s statements were said by doctors to be of a “rehearsed quality”, likely planted there by Mia. The doctor said at one point Dylan said “I like to cheat on my stories”. The doctor interviewed her 9 times and said she changed very major parts of the story each time. His conclusion was “We had two hypotheses: one, that these were statements that were made by an emotionally disturbed child and then became fixed in her mind. And the other hypothesis was that she was coached or influenced by her mother. We did not come to a firm conclusion. We think that it was probably a combination.”
So the accusation against Allen was total BS.
In the Cosby case, no rape has been proven, this is true for sure. But we know for a fact Cosby had numerous sex partners and used his power to get sex in exchange for favors, cash, etc. Since he is portrayed as the ideal hubby and dad, those “facts” do not bode well.
I find Cosby much funnier, though both are major talents. But on the issue, the allegations against Allen were total BS, likely brought on by Farrow’s bitterness over his affair with Soon Yi, an affair that actually turned into a marriage that has endured since 1997. She was bitter likely over the age thing, but then again she was 21 when she married 50 year old Sinatra. No different, and as long as it was all legal, who the hell cares.
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Obvious.
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By the way, the fact that Mia Farrow has gone out of her way to support her “good friend” Roman Polanski makes her own statements regarding Allen seem a little, I don’t know, less than credible.
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Good point. I once asked for clarification of something in a story by Amanda (on a different web site) and I was attacked in a way I’ve never experienced before. I find her to be far too willing to apply her own prejudices to any given topic, and her followers to be rabid, unreasonable, and unwilling to engage in a civil manner.
To me it is obvious. The accusations about Mr. Allen were from people who have a vested interest in destroying him and a well-documented hatred of him. The accusations against Mr. Cosby come from 25 women who have nothing to gain (statute of limitations has past) and who have no connection to each other and have never shown a hatred of Mr. Cosby or even a reason to hate him (prior to the accusations)
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I think it is mainly the drip, drip, drip effect.
Woody Allen’s issues were put out there, there was a reply, and then a couple of articles. It was probably a bad month for him. Most of his defenders fall back on his art.
Cosby has had accuser after accuser coming forward. Each one is adding to the narrative. His comments, his wife’s defense, the others who have publicly defended him seem to make things worse for him and are keeping him in the spotlight. His defenders are also attacking the accusers which causes blowback.
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“Why is Allen getting off scot-free while Cosby is facing late in life career turmoil?
It’s hard to say, …”
It’s hard to say? Well, no problem, so let’s just speculate and further try to smear Woody Allen.
This isn’t the New York Post, so why is TPM running this? “A Tale of Two Sexists”??? By whose measure?
Very disappointing to see this click bait, salacious Entertainment Media “analysis” here.
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