If they didn’t know what they were shooting at then what the hell are they doing shooting at all? What sort of stupidity is this?
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If the rebels didn’t have the equipment to shoot down the “right” plane, what possible excuse could these idiots have for firing on anybody?
And what kind of leader gives amateurs these kind of weapons, anyway?
There’s a weird ad hoc quality to Putin’s behavior. For a genius, he’s been winging it for some time and not doing all that well.
In the July 4, 2014 issue of Science is an article about grading Russian scientists. It seems to be intended to inject more politics again into science. Russian scientists also fear that there will be many closures in the next year or so. Sometimes scientists are the first to know something is up.
The problem is that there was only one thing that would have or could have saved Flight MH17 and that is a strong commander that should have stopped the firing of the Buk. What is worse is that the Russian government should have provided that strong able commander to put a stop to the firing of that weapon.
The fact is that Russia has started what would be called a proxy war, this war is between the U.S. and the Russian nation. We are now in a state of war started by Russia when they invaded the Ukraine.
With the arming of the separatists with heavy weapons and anti-aircraft weaponry the Russians have upped the ante of this cold war conflict. The only recourse President Obama has is to call for diplomatic intervention with all the world’s nations backing this intervention of Russia.
Oh well, that makes all the difference. All those bodies they are throwing into the backs of dump trucks is ok because they didn’t know what they were shooting at. So, I guess they need more training and then they will only shoot down planes from Ukraine.
Nothing to see here folks.
In the defense of journalists, one can’t report what one can’t prove. Well one can, but that’s sloppy reporting. We have to let the story unfold and as the evidence comes in, it will get reported. Journalism isn’t the problem here, it’s Russia.
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Oh, good grief.
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That screencap was from several hours afterward, after everyone quickly rerouted around the area (note that the caption says “following the crash”). It’s dated 20:18 (though I suppose it was taken at least a few minutes before that), and the first post on the IB Times page about the incident was at 17:32.
I don’t know where BI gets the idea that MH17 “veered north”. The Flightradar24 track shows it took almost exactly the same path as the flight on the 17th (and I checked a bunch earlier and they’re all essentially the same, differing only in other areas):
The FAA warning was specifically about Crimea, it even includes a map showing the area it’s referring to. It has a general caution about keeping up with security and threat information and the “potential for instability” in the rest of the country, but it also explicitly says that “operations are normal in all other Ukraine FIRS”:
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ifim/us_restrictions/media/2014_04-03_fdc_notam_4-2816_ukraine.pdf
These are the links either from the BI article itself or the sources they use. Sloppy reporting IMO.
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The state of general stupidity and amnesia is astounding. I guess the expectation is that people learned nothing from the rush to war for oil in Iraq. Firstly, Russia didn’t start this war-the US did. Ukraine isn’t a nation except in ignorant Americans’ minds-it is a state of the USSR. If you want to understand what happened, imagine Russia subverting the elected government in Texas and inserting people friendly to Russia. If anyone is responsible for this tragedy, it is the US government who overthrew a corrupted but elected government in Kiev in a violent coup to steal Russia’s resources–mainly gas and agricultural land to make a country just another of dozens of lands for US corporations to exploit. Same old, same old. You evidently didn’t hear the taped conversation between the neo-con Victoria Nuland, whose husband is one of the architects of PNAC, engineering the violent overthrow with Jeffrey Pyatt, nor that Hunter Biden just became the director of Burisma, a Ukranian gas company in the most audacious display of cronyism.
Secondly, the people in East Ukraine, want not part of the illegitimate US puppet government in Kiev, and are fighting for independence for their own destiny. Thirdly, there is absolutely no evidence they shot down the plane–only guesses and rumors from people rushing to judgement and control of a message, without a shred of forensic evidence, because it suits their agenda. The US government backed junta in Kiev has been dragging Putin into a war, which he has managed to avoid, but that will not last forever. So, ask yourself if you are ready to be dragged into WW3 with a nuclear nation…because Russia isn’t Iraq, and it appears you learned little from the fiasco that is Iraq.
Only one thing could have saved it: not flying over eastern Ukraine.
Sooo if you are going to arm terrorists, please provide them will all of the equipment they need, not just part of it.
As @ThunderclapNewman says None of this “woulda-shoulda-coulda” bullshit matters.
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Define “terrorists”. I think the Nazis responsible for the massacres in Odessa and Eastern Ukraine, whom the US put in power in Kiev, are terrorists…which makes the ultimate terrorist, who, exactly?
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Exactly what Hillary said and she was right as well. To the people who were killed and their families, this kind of “intellectual” debate is probably less than worthless.
Obviously you and Putin have got this all figured out. Ukraine are nazis and it’s all US fault! Good luck pushing that boulder up hill. But I guess you have no choice. And what’s wrong with using your regular account? Saving that one for Snowden stuff?
“Good luck pushing that boulder up hill.”
The rest of the world is not as stupid as America. The rest of the world understood what Obama’s lil’ helper Victoria Nuland meant when she said “Fuck the EU”. It wasn’t about keeping the peace in Ukraine, that’s for sure.
Obviously, the US is behind the deteriorating situation.
Obama and his State Department have made one blunder after another. Supporting the overthrow of elected governments in Ukraine, Egypt, Honduras and Venezuela.
Don’t try to explain that to a bunch of Josh Marshall suck-ups. They still believe in unicorns and that Israelis are the good guys.
Somebody ^^^^^^^^ having a bit of a tantrum.
"[quote=“jw1, post:6, topic:7163”]
It was an economic decision by Malaysia and/or Malaysia Airlines. Period.
[/quote]
You could not be more wrong. The Malaysian FAA equivalent has no control over Ukrainian airspace.
The Ukrainian FAA equivalent is the one that directed this flight over the war zone. Why is no “reporter” at TPM finding out why Ukraine directed this plane over an active war zone?
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Who said anything about rebels flying at 30,000 feet, except you?
. . . and you accept that statement with zero evidence presented. Do you wonder why Americans are looked at as a very stupid people?
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