This article is part of TPM Cafe, TPM’s home for opinion and news analysis. It first appeared at The Conversation.
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1400833
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1400833
I call bullshit.
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Fun headline. Co-opted from the Onion?
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I’m an older white southerner and it never occurred to me that waving to someone could be construed as expecting them to react in a specific way to signal anything or make me feel any particular way. Sometimes, folks, a wave really is nothing but a wave. I can see if you are looking for another meaning you can find it …in almost anything.
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Of course race played a part in the Arbery case but don’t kid yourself, if plays a part up north as well.
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Born and raised in the North, from early 1982 to early 1985 I was was working and living in Louisiana and experienced exactly what this article is discussing about the South. My job was an outside auditor (CPA) so I traveled in much of the region.
While I was not very political at the time, what I remembered most was how every White person, to a person man and woman, born in the South all thought Ronald Reagan was screwing them but loved Reagan because “he is screwing Black people worse”.
That is not a direct quote because I never once heard a White Southerner say “Black people”.
That is what I remember most about White people from the South was how much more friendly they were than Whites in the North to Black people when interacting with Black people but then showed their true side, utter irrational hatred, when only White people were in the room.
Maybe things have changed in the last almost 40 years, but then in 1984 it had been over 100 years since the Civil War and the attitudes of those born and raised in the South had not changed.
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Do you wave to random strangers on the street? I’ve visited relatives, but I’ve never lived in the South, and while I’m not steeped in “Southern Hospitality,” everywhere we go and every culture has rituals that signify if you are part of the “in” group or not. People like to joke about “masonic handshakes” and things to imply belonging in secret societies, but the reality is that every social interaction is a test to see how you fit in.
If you’re going for an interview here in the US business/white collar world, you’re advised to look your interviewer in the eyes and shake hands firmly to display confidence, comfort and respect. If you don’t maintain eye contact or your handshake is tepid, it’s often taken as a sign of discomfort/not belonging. I don’t have experiences with interviewing for work in other cultures, but I imagine others have very different ideas of what makes a good first impression.
I don’t think it’s possible for a wave to ever be “nothing but a wave.”
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Perhaps I am naive tho often I am the one reminding our friends to not discount racism. In no way am I denying rampant racism! certainly it exists, especially in the South. Just wish every gesture wasn’t over analyzed looking for evil intent when just perhaps it doesn’t exist.
My father constantly used the “n” word and assumed the worst of any person of color by instinct… I know people of my generation who are the same. However, many more of us lean towards color blindness - and our kids even more so. Please don’t paint us all with the same brush. I was in 4th grade when our schools integrated… yes - it was slow coming. Things you would think were obvious have to be learned over time by many. Attitudes are changing - but those with bad ones tend to speak loudest.
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Ahmaud Arbery’s Murder Showed ‘Southern Hospitality’ Doesn’t Always Apply To Black People
A bit of understatement there. MARTA the public transit system of Atlanta as originally intended to serve five counties it ended serving only two, because they didn’t want “those people” from Atlanta to come to their communities, actually in Buckhead a posh section of Atlanta they still haven gotten over it, and it’s been more than 40 years that the rail station was build there.
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I spent my first twelve years in the deep South, then moved north. In recent years I visited the southern states many times because my parents and siblings lived there. Although I was able to slide right into the effusive politeness that is everywhere in every transaction, I have to admit that I was initially surprised at the lack of trust at all levels of society and the barely disguised rudeness if I tried to do anything official (verify property deeds or taxes, etc.) In too many cases, the facade is as phony as a three-dollar bill and almost everyone is extremely practiced in using it. There are lots of genuine, wonderful people in the south, but I did learn to watch my back. Sample of one.
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I wrote a song a long time ago about black baseball players in the 1930’s. I only remember my favorite line: And that southern hospitality, is not all that it’s cracked up to be.
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“This racial ideology may be more pronounced in some parts of the nation, like the U.S. South, but my research shows that this racial order is present above, below and across the Mason-Dixon Line.”
This piece could have done with a better headline, to avoid white northerners using it to distance themselves from that racism.
Remember, it was Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan that gave Donald Trump the Presidency, and Georgia that took him out of it.
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On my first family visit to meet Mr. Velour’s family, around 2006, we landed at PHL. I’d never been. BTW, we are both “white”. Hubby told me to notice the racial friction between Blacks and whites. I looked at him not believing a word of it. I can’t say 100% if it was racial or class motivated, or a combination, but in the heart of Philly, I did sense a strong Us vs. Them vibe. I’ve lived in the Los Angeles area all my life and have never experienced it.
In the suburbs of NJ, there’s incredible politeness, among everyone to everyone, it seems, that we definitely don’t have in L.A.
My experience of living in NJ for several years was that it was profoundly racist.
To my ears, the judge’s questioning of who we consider our neighbor was subtly invoking the man who asked of Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” (Luke 10:29).
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My impression is the same. The politeness, the good manners, are a breath of fresh air compared to the self centered oblivious douchebags I come into contact with every day. Seriously, one of my favorite things is getting coffee at the WAWA and everyone saying good morning, have a nice day, holding the door for each other!!! I tell ya, that DOES NOT HAPPEN where I live!
But yeah, there is a lot of racist b.s. there. Of course, no one believes in the slightest that they’re racist. There’s also a much more casual attitude towards masking, which drives me bonkers.
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I don’t doubt your intent. I also imagine that you’d wave to anybody as a welcoming gesture, no matter their color.
Yes, any action can be over-analyzed. But it can be so hard to determine the intent of others. And I think this author is speaking of a collection of actions, that taken together mark in-groups and out-groups. If even one reader of this article goes, “Huh, I never thought of it that way,”–that this simple gesture or a simple greeting marks unconscious buy-in to structural racism, it’s progress.
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Southern hospitality, like its cousin, southern honor, were always obviously just a lie, a front for vicious assholery.
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As a refugee from rural southern culture, talking among other refugees, it’s common knowledge that southern charm is fake as hell. Give me someone who will curse like a sailor and give it to me straight any time.
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Do tell…
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