Discussion for article #240954
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Gozer the Gozarian would nearly pull a muscle praising the Pope if he agreed with him.
You know its true.
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That’s a smart move, Mike!
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Yes…that sounds good. But I was there…in Vietnam and it was a fucking disaster. I was a young grunt in 1968 and I was there less than a day when I knew that war was wrong. All of us knew that.
I still cough from a bullet wound in my chest and when it’s cold I can’t stand long due to breaking 16 bones when my chopper was shot down. That’s what I got out of the DIA’s war. Many got worse.
The DIA got that one wrong. We ended up hauling ass out of there. Beaten and hanging onto the skids of a slick.
The Pope was right. The dirty fucking hippies were right. Carroll senior was wrong. To the tune of 20 million lives.
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As Bob Dylan sang, You gotta serve somebody!
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RichardinJax,
What do you think so many vets, ones who were in Vietnam, detest John Kerry? I can understand why flag wavers who weren’t there would rail against him, but during the whole swiftboat thing, why weren’t the people who were actually there standing up for him and saying, yeah, it was an immoral clusterfuck and Kerry was right to protest against the war when he got out?
[ because it is so hard to read tone, I want to make it clear – I’m not doubting you at all by bringing up this counterpoint. I really am confused why foot soldiers in Vietnam didn’t have Kerry’s back ]
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Me too!
“My father’s information and expertise were no doubt essential to the memo McNamara sent to Johnson a little over a month later, a recommendation to vastly escalate the number of U.S. combat troops, up to more than 400,000 in 1966, with 200,000 to follow in 1967. The depth of the American abyss was set. So much for the wisdom of “the real world.” Our nation’s tragedy would be the writ-large of my father’s."
Strong tough words by a son!
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Everybody knew it was a disaster. In October 1965, I was at USAF OTS - Officer Training School - on the way to pilot training and then to fly C-130s in Vietnam.
Two takeaways: the first was that the quality of pedagogy - getting the point across clearly & concisely, was far better at OTS than at my prestigious alma mater, Wesleyan Univ., Connecticut.
Insight #2: In the academic course on Vietnam, taught by a major and a captain, we were shown a map of South Vietnam and told, “As military aviators, you must accept facts as they are, rather than how you wish they were. Given the fact of a 1,000-mile indefensible border covered by triple-canopy jungle, the only conclusion is that South Vietnam cannot be permanently defended from the North Vietnamese.”
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Because idiocy ignorance and stupidity.
The “experts,” in my own domain of energy, which Francis discusses now, are mostly lifers in an industry that has for all of our lives burned fossil fuels. That’s where their,our, pensions are invested. They, we, chant what we know, as did General Carroll, who must be forgiven.
When I shout #ZeroFossil from the rooftops (with my PhD and hard-earned notoriety), my good friends, engineers and otherwise experts, many with their rooftop solar, carpoolers, public transit users, at Pacific GAS and Electric and other companies, hear “Jason wants to bankrupt our employers and our pensions,” and they find reasons to doubt and resist that way forward.
Sanders is right, if not sufficiently strong, in pushing a hard socialism, to give us the fossil-grown experts the courage to look for our grandchildren’s future, where we keep the fossils buried, and bury those which our generation, and those around us, have unburied,
More #GreenTrots, sooner rather than later.
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This is why it is so important for the Pope to have actual moral authority as this Pope has. It’s why it’s vital for the Catholic Church to get its act together regarding the various abuses in its parishes. For the Pope should be revered and admired for his morality and basic humanity, not for being the “president” of a prosperous and influential state. It really does matter who the Pope is.
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Pretty clearly this is THE James Carroll. I am thrilled that he is a commenter here at TPM. Has he been here before?
His body of literature is considerable. The most seminal as to my life and outlook is “Prince of Peace”, an historical novel of the fifties and sixties which tracks very closely his commentary above.
The other two I have read are “Supply of Heroes” (an historical novel about Ireland and the First WW), and “Constantine’s Sword”, a history of relations between Jews and Christians.
Again, I am thrilled that Josh has Mr. Carroll engaged with TPM. Here is link to “Prince” via GoodReads:
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Because the haters were put up to it. Their job was to slander Kerry and they did. And then they drowned out the voices to the contrary. It’s their MO. Yell lies louder than those who know the truth can talk.
My husband, who is a Vietnam Vet (former tail-gunner and eventually a helicopter pilot) viscerally despises Kerry mainly because of his alliance with Jane Fonda. He shows me pictures of them together, which I understand would raise horrible memories.
I think Kerry got a very bad (and actually a completely false) rap. I admire him very much. Jane Fonda has apologized, but she did the same kind of damage as Tokyo Rose, and even though she was young, she was very destructive to the hope and will of our soldiers who were there, and I understand why they can’t manage to accept that apology.
For my husband the thing that is so hard to accept is the way he and his cohorts were treated when they came back. They were brought over, put into civilian clothing and told to “sneak” home. They were treated like pariahs, and when they see the current welcoming committees where everyone is a hero, it is very hard to take. In Vietnam, most of the military didn’t have a choice; they were drafted (he wasn’t) but now it is totally a choice. But when he went over as a 19 -year-old and saw war in all its horrors, and then came home to a disapproving country it was very discouraging to say the least.
Now, everyone who goes to a war zone, even those who are just lawyers (Lynsey Graham, Tom Cotton, et al) are suddenly heroes. I honestly think that John Kerry was and is an honorable man, who simply said what he believed to be true. The reason so many vets don’t like him is because he was there for such a short while, and never had to go back. I really like him, but I do understand how those who dodged bullets for 3 years or more might feel otherwise.
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Time for some real changes in that medieval cult and regressive mindset…and now is the time:
Too radical? …Perhaps ~wait for it!~ Iggy Pope!
http://think.bigchief.it/wp-content/files/2013/03/tumblr_mj924vKL7V1qzft56o1_400.jpg
On the other hand, I did admire this Pope’s visit to the infirm, the mentally challenged and sick:
https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12009699_10203825041826883_6752545616736202638_n.jpg?oh=5e0f1ce4aedccec915d3300ceb67d6d9&oe=5696F62F
Yup! There was that. And he did a pretty good job of demonstrating how the Rightie Jesus Freaks, in and out of Congress, were raging and ranting hypocrites and liars when it comes to practicing their professed faith.
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In case anyone wants to review Kerry’s Senate hearings, here’s the video.
Somewhere, there exists a video of Nixon and I think Kissinger discussing what to do about this smart and dangerous young man.
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What’s depressing about this is that it didn’t make any difference. The pope spoke to the UN in 65. US didn’t withdraw until 75. Not only that, after 65 the conflict only escalated.
So if people are thinkin’ the pope has the ability to change people’s minds, they are sadly mistaken.
Interesting tidbit…Neo-Con Kissinger was an advisor to Pope Benedict XVI.
And there he was again in the front row at vespers service at St. Patrick’s Cathedral:
…from the NYT
Maybe his wife is a Catholic, because he sure isn’t.
Thank you for your sacrifice. Wish there were 58,209 others commenting today on TPM, the American combat and non combat deaths in that war that did not have to be.