Got Billion$?
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OK.
Apparently not. But Iād be happy if we would just be a legal nation. Guantanamo, extra-judicial killings, illegal wars such as Iraq, are terrible for our reputation, at the very least.
[quote=ānatasbob, post:149, topic:43936ā]
Is it easier to make your argument with hind site?
[/quote] .
I; the majority of Democrats in Congress; tens of millions of other Americans; and probably the clear majority of the worldās population; were against the war before it started. Personally, I get no joy in having my doubts confirmed - and then some - about the dishonesty of the process, the lies and manipulations (yellow cake, mushroom clouds, mobile weapons labs, ad nauseam)
I have no idea what you base your beliefs on. Me, I obviously am not looking for approval from this crowd of relatively uncritical followers of HRC.
Iām assuming that you donāt. I certainly donāt, considering the lies leading up to Iraq, or a myriad of other examples.
Again, I donāt know what beliefs you hold, but if youāre arguing that things might have turned out bad if we didnāt do anything, sure, thatās possible. But the peer-reviewed PLOS study that I link to above posits that there were about 500K additional deaths than wouldnāt have happened without our intervention. Of course, something else might have happened, but Iāve never been a fan of speculative history.
Now, here, you have totally gone off the rails. First, the problem of what you define as a ātotalitarian regimeā. Egypt? North Korea? Tajikistan? And then, letās assume that definition is not a problem. We have a really bad track record of imposing systems on other peoples. And letās not get started on the costs in blood and treasure that such a liberal policy of intervention any time thereās āinfringe(ment) on the rights to life and liberty of a peopleā.
Yeah, and then we turned around and stayed neutral when the French were being attacked:
From 1790 to 1794, the French Revolution became increasingly radical. After French King Louis XVI was tried and executed on January 21, 1793, war between France and monarchal nations Great Britain and Spain was inevitable. These two powers joined Austria and other European nations in the war against Revolutionary France that had already started in 1791. The United States remained neutral, as both Federalists and Democratic-Republicans saw that war would lead to economic disaster and the possibility of invasion.
Of course, the French forgot pretty quickly about human rights when they reinstituted slavery in Haiti, and then later, after the Haitians successfully revolted, they saddled them with crushing debt which continued for 175 years or so. So youāre right in that I would have preferred the French during our Revolution. Except for the monarchy part.
Half a million people die; we have ISIS raping and killing people and destroying world heritage sites, and you want to laud the leadership qualities of the fools and/or cynical fucks who voted for the war.
Brilliant!
.
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Absolutely!!!
And finally:
Well, I have spotted yours.
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Cuban is a Yinzer.
The steel is in the blood.
The blood is in the steel.
Cuban came up from very little. No wonder he has no respect for Donnie.
Maybe heāll show up in a giant orange mohawk wig.
so there will be one billionaire present
āAnd with bigger handsā
We are in agreement on the majority of your responses. Facts are facts and Iām not a fool.
My simple argument: if given the obligation to vote to go to war with a toltalitarian regime:
-A system that strives to control every possible facet of its adherents lives-
Which way should a moral person vote? Many of the places you list indeed fit this description. These regimes do not have merely local aspirations. Not only the USA, but also humanity hold the obligation to resist this.
Unfortunately, the world has shown again and again that it is not wholeheartedly interested in this pursuit and this is a large reason why we have failed in our attempts; also we fail to have adequate long term plans and viable exit strategies creating power vacuums. I do not know the exact solution to that.
You are correct in the circumstances being idealistic and not sustainable / affordable in man power and funds etc. to just go out and fight them all.
This is not my argument. Simply that I would have voted āyayā at the time knowing the history of Hussein is my argument.
The French, as you have pointed out would mostly agree that Nay was the correct vote for involvement with the revolutionary war in hindsight.
Wars are fought for politics and not moral imperatives. I think we agree on that.
Obviously HRC doesnāt believe as I do or she would be willing and able to defend her vote. Regardless of if Iām wrong or right- arguing against what I am condoning in its simplest form is politically difficult.
I apologize for offending you. Not my purpose.
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No. Thatās my job.
And Iāve been off-site nose-grinding a project to fruition these last 5 weeks.
But Iām back punching the TPM clock this morning.
jw1
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Hopefully it involved trolling the shit out of breitbarters?
No sir. Actually the most apolitical period for me in, well, decades.
jw1
A bit OT, but I just now saw on MSNBC, toadie fascist asskisser with the most punchable smug Joker-grinning face, Hugh Hewitt said he doesnāt believe in fact-checking at the debate because "Facts are a very subjective thing."
(*??? Echo here of Bonzo Ronnie Reaganās āFacts are stupid things.ā remark, huh? Only today, for the Rethugs, that is no slip of the tongue; it is REALITY. )
I canāt evenā¦gawwwdā! Repuke Trump toadies want that bar below the ground for the vacuous, no-nothing, screeching and insulting banshee YamMan and not just lowered.
(I just want Clinton to come out, shake Agent Orangeās hand and, looking down, remark, āOh my goodness! They ARE tiny hands. Good luck.ā )
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Hereās your morning pick-me-up. Listen often and repost often___and donāt forget that the most deplorable creature associated with the āBasket of Deplorablesā in the Trump campaign freakshow is the candidate himself.
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Iāve wondered where youād been. Iāve missed your wit and insight.
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Isnāt HO a germaphobe, too? Maybe Secretary Clinton could say that sheād been to the ladiesā room and had forgotten to wash her hands.
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Thank you for posting this.
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LOLā¦ Called it! The Donald, however crazy, is not that hard to predict, it would appear. Sad!
Ha! You clearly have a deep understanding of the mind of Donald Trump. I feel mean just saying that.
Gennifer Flowers Agrees To Join Trump At First Presidential Debate
I was closeā¦but no cigar.