Trump DQ Cases Hinge On One Question: Does Congress Need To Act? - TPM – Talking Points Memo

[jonney_5]

@topchap

Courts have held, that with regard to disqualification from future office, the 14th is self-executing. No prior conviction required. The remedy is there if TFG wants to challenge, 2/3rds of Congress can resolve in his favor

Self executing makes no sense… self executing when?

Congress can’t remedy a candidate not on the ballot.

How?

[bcgister]

@christianhankel

ETA: I would assume the question of how to officially determine what it means to have “engaged in insurrection…” is being considered by all parties in these suits.

I’m wondering if “… We Love You, You’re Very Special.” and related tweets rise to the level of aid and comfort. (Trump's Message to Capitol Protesters: 'Go Home, We Love You' )

[jonney_5]

@exspectator

A self executing clause strikes me as very risky business. Red states would have a field day with it fabricating all kinds of phony Democrat insurrections and Democrats would never again appear on their ballots.

Yep.

CREW is Fucking around… and democrats are going to be the ones finding out.

[IBecameACitizenforthis]

@christianhankel

I think it’s essential that we go through the process. If we simply ignored the 14th in this very obvious case, lawyers for future insurrectionists will point to it and say, “If no one bothered to apply it to Trump, then it certainly shouldn’t be applied to my client.”

Fair point, for sure. He clearly is an insurrectionist and the law appears to me to be profoundly unclear as to how that is determined for this purpose.

[jonney_5]

@voreason

This will be decided in the state courts

Great… let’s invite elected republican judges into this process… great idea…

[joelopines]

@garyturner

Might be time to read what the law states, which says nothing about “conviction”.

Yeah, let’s read it and see what it does say:

The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

That would seem to be all it says about enforcement. As against government, the amendment is binding insofar as it explicitly prohibits certain government violations. The Ku Klux Klan Act applies the amendment[s] against individuals, but disqualification is not authorized by it. Congress does not appear, except in the punishment provisions in a single criminal statute for which Drumpf has not been indicted, let alone convicted, to have addressed enforcement of the disqualification clause.

So who else can create a mechanism to enforce Section 3, consistent with the due process rights of individuals? That would seem to me to be an open question. And it isn’t resolved merely by reference to what’s absent in the amendment’s language. So maybe tone down the superciliousness a tad, eh?

@christianhankel; @topchap; @john_adams; @franquellim ; @IBecameACitizenforthis

[vlharpley]

Hummm, everyone is eligible for Due Process.

[fiftygigs]

stuck on threshold questions

Like, how can Republicans siphon off power to politicians, so people like John Eastman or Sydney Powell can judge the “original” meaning?

The law is above every individual and institution. Trump deliberately fomented an insurrection which was broadcast live on tv. The jails are full of people who admit Trump told them to do it.

Trump is ineligible (as well as unqualified) for civil service.

It’s in plain site. Thresholds were exceeded on January 6th.

[coimmigrant]

@christianhankel

The clause has nothing to do with the Confederacy or the Civil War

That viewpoint will be dismissed as soon as Alito and his fellow original intent brethren explain why you are mistaken.

[tsp]

@jonney_5

Why would we take out their weak frontrunner? In hopes of a stronger candidate w/ less baggage?

Who do you have in mind? Name someone, anyone, who has a stronger grip over the GQP than does Dotard T rumpp.

[christianhankel]

I’m actually surprised the GOP hasn’t tried this one, yet. Seems like it would have been an obvious go-to for election deniers: Biden won through fraud, thereby he has taken part in an insurrection and should be removed from office. Why didn’t they do it, given how far the pushed they envelope everywhere else? One possibility is that they realized the reverse of your assertion: they couldn’t prove the Biden had been part of an insurrection while they knew it would be obvious that Trump had. Or maybe they just never read the Constitution, which could certainly be the case.

[lestatdelc]

You seem to be lost, and you apparently wandered in from OANN.

[tpr]

@lastroth

Joey B … which combo of blizzard is his favorite

I would order the “Diamond Joe” Blizzard at DQ. I’m always half an excuse away from going for a milkshake anyway.

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@dont

My red oak at peak

I want to be all over that beautiful lawn right now. I have just the whip-snappery for it.

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@vlharpley

everyone is eligible for Due Process.

This is the crux. A person who is being threatened with loss of their rights because of something they allegedly did is entitled to have an opportunity to see the evidence against them, to present whatever defense they might have, and to have the question settled in an honest, impartial, non-political way. This country was essentially founded on the idea that it’s bad if powerful people can make up bad things you did and then punish you for them.

If we don’t have that, then we’ll be ruled by dictators who can eliminate e.g. Gavin Newsom from the race by saying, “he didn’t tweet against the insurrection fast enough, so he ‘engaged’ and is DQed.”

The fact that TRUMP’s “engagement” is obvious to all of us does not eliminate our need for due process. It just means it should be very easy to meet that bar.

[christianhankel]

The clause doesn’t mention criminality and the Constitution doesn’t bar a felon from holding office. The relief seems to only be from being barred from office due to insurrection.

[jonney_5]

@tsp

Who do you have in mind? Name someone, anyone, who has a stronger grip over the GQP than does Dotard T rumpp.

Mike Johnson is speaker today because he was not a well known fascist prior to his ascension

Youngkin is Governor of VA because prior to his election he kept his extremism quieter.

If Trump is out b/c some nonsense 14A business. Someone else, who at least isn’t a confirmed disaster will have better chances of winning.

[jonney_5]

@christianhankel

The relief seems to only be from being barred from office due to insurrection.

Who makes that call, and on what authority, as to what is insurrection?

(Hint: There are no good answers to this question)

[christianhankel]

I agree. But to ignore the clause in this case is to delete the clause from all future consideration. The law is not always convenient, but choosing not to follow it because of its inconvenience is not a valid argument.

[jonney_5]

@IBecameACitizenforthis

This whole disqualification issue is garbage

Yes. It’s is a fool errand. Makes dems look scared of Republican.

@IBecameACitizenforthis

the Once and Future President can’t be DQ’d as he wasn’t an official in the confederacy

No. This is wrong. Constitution mentions nothing of. Confederacy.

@IBecameACitizenforthis

and hasn’t been convicted of anything that would allow for him to be disqualified.

A proper federal conviction on charges related to insurrection seems the minimum here…

[stellermeller]

All of this just drives some of us to distraction.

Tronald Dump is the most dangerous fool on the planet. Yet we’ll argue the minutiae of the law until the earth takes us out for the inability to make a proper decision based on law.

[stellermeller]

Sorry, IANAL, obviously, just so very frustrated.