South Carolina Republicans Advance Map That Aims to Eliminate Jim Clyburn’s Seat

I don’t give them a pass at all. Just because they’re not the root cause of racism doesn’t mean they’re not fanning the flames, and culpable for the results.

That’s an interesting read into what I’ve said. Consider this sentence;

The fact that I’m specifying racist whites should be a pretty clear indicator that no, not all whites are racists. If they were, that construction would be redundant and stupid. So, right off the bat, I think you should probably recalibrate what you’re reading into my statements.

Often, yes. However, it should be noted that pretty much every marginalized group has experienced the hole in your logic, be they an ethnic, religious, cultural, counter-cultural, or sexual outgroup.

‘Oh, no, that’s Tom. I know Tom. Tom’s one of the good ones. He’s not like most [ethnicity/culture/religion/queers].’

Now, I’m not saying you’re not being 100% completely honest about your experience in the law firm. I’m quite sure you are. But one person’s experience doesn’t negate the lived experiences of quite a lot of other people.

One in 4 Alabamans are black. You think Coach Tommy Tuberville never dealt with black athletes? Do you think Donald Trump, of ‘the only minority I want handling my money are the ones in the yarmulkas’ fame hasn’t met black people?

I have lived in the South. I have witnessed, firsthand, the truth of ‘Familiarity breeds contempt’. No, the kind of racism I am talking about is very much alive and well in the poor trailer trash communities of Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and many, many other states. I still have friends in Mississippi who are continuing to fight it, including against their own family members.

No, it is very much not confined to ‘religious or private schools and in affluent communities’. It is still very much a living, breathing element of many folks’ identities. ‘I may be poor white trash, but at least I ain’t black trash’.

Though, when my friend’s sister said it, she used a slightly less polite descriptor.

Are you saying we should treat people we don’t like worse than we treat people we like? If so what is the difference between you and the average member of the Klan. That is my bitch with a lot of Democrats who want to punish or ignore people who don’t think like them.

The answer to folks who think that way is government needs to help everyone who needs help, including white people who don’t deserve help because we need to make America better for our childen. I could quote some scripture at this point if you want.

Can you please point to where I said that?

Oh, feel free. I’m sure the infallible words of the imaginary sky fairy will be very persuasive to an atheist.

I read your comments for context and that is how I intepreted them.. As I understand you think you should foccus on keeping minorities happy and leave white voters to the Republicans. You seem to be down with the Democratic party having a genuine ethnic identity. I kinow the Republicans are happy with that interpretation as well. That is pretty much the Trump crowd’s view of America. All racism, all the time. So if you and your Republican opponents are good with splitting the country between white and black how do I say you are superior to MAGA in any meaningfu way. The racism runs both ways.

Now you are going to say that you aren’t racist. Your position simply reflects the effects of white racism. My problem is I don’t run into overt white racists that often these days. When I was young I ran into them all the time. These days far less often and when it happens most whites I know are shocked. Is the world perfect. No not by a long shot.. But it isn’t 1960 Alabama either.

It is time the Democratic party stopped buying into that 1960 narrative frame and just tell Republican racists to sit down and shut up. To do that Democrats are going to have to be willling to get out of their comfort zone and start working the white suburbs again. They will discover what their racist consultants don’t know how to acknowledge. Most of the white people in the suburbs are appalled by Trump’s overt racism. That is the only way you can explain the uprising against ICE in Minneapolis/St. Paul. Most white Americans just wish the Democratic party didn’t treat them like overt racists and worse.

And, as we established back when you thought I was calling all white people racist (which would, you know, mean calling myself racist), you do not seem to be very good at reading things into what I say.

So, perchance, it might be a better idea to not try to read things into what I’m saying. If you don’t understand what I’m getting at, ask me to explain the bit you don’t get.

No, I am not saying ‘focus on keeping minorities happy and leave white voters to the Republicans’. What I am saying is that we do very much need minority voters, and cannot afford to alienate them by trying to specifically pander to the white vote in the Deep South. Most of the white vote in the Deep South is completely unwinnable. It doesn’t matter how much our policies would benefit them, the majority of the white vote in the Deep South is voting on tribalism, and just tribalism.

That doesn’t mean we don’t try to reach them, but it does mean that we can’t prioritize that attempt over making sure we deliver for the voters who have been reliable. Every single time we have tried—Every. Single. Time—to chase ‘moderate’ Republicans, they have gone ahead and voted for the Republicans, not the Republican-Lite offered by the Democrats. And the voters who normally turn out for us get pissed off because we’ve stabbed them in the back.

Nowhere have I said we shouldn’t try to reach these people. What I’ve said is: don’t approach this like this is because of the billionaires. Don’t assume that ‘first contact’ will make racism evaporate like puddles on a sunny summer day. It won’t. What we’re working to overcome here are long-standing cultural factors that are deeply-ingrained into a lot of these folks’ identities. Frankly, you insisting ‘oh, we just need to talk about our goals’ and ‘racism doesn’t survive first contact’ despite decades of history proving all of that to not be case… you come across as pollyanna-ish.

You don’t run into overt white racists these days? Awesome. You know who else doesn’t? Sonya Sotomayor. You think any of her co-workers is walking around tossing racial epithets about the SCOTUS offices? Like the ones who just went and intentionally ruled to suppress minority votes…

Do you think we haven’t been telling racists to sit down and shut up? Of course we have. That’s why you don’t see as much overt racism anymore. And then you get the Republican Party, and Trump especially, cozying up to overt white supremacists.

The white you know are shocked by that? That’s a good thing. But how many of them would tell you if they quietly agreed with the message, they just don’t like how blatantly it’s being delivered? Like, they hear ‘white people have been getting the short end of the stick for a while now’, and don’t like hearing it because they know it’s bullshit… but quietly, in their gut, they feel like ‘yeah, but we can’t say that’.

Because here on Long Island, in the solidly Republican NY suburbs? Yeah, that’s exactly the situation. They’re appalled by Trump’s overt racism, not his overt racism. And no, they don’t want the Democrats to treat them better. They want the Democrats driven out of everywhere. There are people living not 3 houses down from me that, if shit starts off, I know they’ll be coming for my head.

Try to reach people. Try to get them to see the truth they don’t want to see. Don’t be surprised when they insist that you must be wrong, because that’s not the truth they want to be true.

Kinda like I’m not surprised by any of what you’ve said. I’ve had this convo dozens of times with well-meaning, but naive, liberals who somehow think Democrats haven’t tried to address the concerns of working-class white voters, who think that Democrats haven’t worked their asses off to combat inflation, wage stagnation, loss of jobs, or addressed America’s infrastructure issues, despite that being literally the exact entire agenda of the last Administration. Or who insist ‘Democrats haven’t done anything about healthcare’ despite the only success story in healthcare this century being literally nicknamed OBAMACARE because it was done by Democrats, under a Democratic President.

This convo started off about people in the Deep South. Now you’re bringing Minneapolis into it. Last I checked, Minneapolis isn’t in the Deep South. They aren’t part of the culture of the Deep South. Have you noticed that Trump hasn’t felt a need to send ICE into places like Atlanta, or Knoxville?

Last week I was talking with a guy in Texas. Smart guy. Literal astrophysicist. The subject of Rene Good and Alex Pretti came up. He insisted they were involved in violent attacks on federal officers, all while claiming Ashley Babbit was gunned down with an AR-15 over a broken window, and none of the J6 guys were at all violent.

Stop thinking that a country the size of Europe is a monoculture. It’s not.

I have never said “pander to the white vote in the Deep South.” I have said adopt policies that promise to help all people in America. Have you read the polls. Trump and the Republicans are underwater. Great. Unfortunately a lot of Democrats breeze over the fact that they are also underwater. We have been undewater for a while now. I don’t hear Democrats asking why. Maybe I am polyanish but where I come from if something isn’t working you figure out why and how fix it. We need to figure out how to attract people of all colors. We need to stop panderiing to minorities to the exclusion of everyone else. We need to have an agenda that talks to everybody.

We only have control over the Democratic party. Maybe we should ask why it is falling flat and what we can do to fix it.

What you said was:

specifically in response to numbers from Alabama, Louisiana, South Carolina, and Mississippi. ie: the Deep South.

Which is why I raised the issue of penetrating the RW media bubble. Because ‘a positive reputation with white people’ means across the board, not ‘with some vanishingly small percentage of white people’. You weren’t talking about small numbers of white people. You were talking about enough to make 40% of the voters of Alabama no longer ‘relevant’ (using your word there). To do that, you need to win at least 1/3 of the non-black vote in Alabama. You need that broad a ‘positive reputation’. And even then, you still need every scrap of that 40%.

There’s only one way you’re going to get a ‘positive reputation with white people’ in Alabama.

Run as a Republican.

If I recall the numbers you provided were the number of black voters in those states compared to the total population of each state. Similar numbers are found in a lot of nothern Democratic states. The logical problem with the numbers provided is the assumption that whtes only vote for whtes and blacks only vote for blacks. That is simply not the case. If there is a compelling agenda people want psssed they will vote across racial lines. I suspect some compelling black candidates for lower office are being squeezed out by gerrymandered districts that favor the likes of Jim Clyburn in safe seats designed by Democrats and Republicans to protect him because 60 years ago he was a civil rights hero. Democrats have several compelling young candidates. The party needs to support more.

If you recall, I did no such thing. That was @dont. And it’s easy enough to check just by popping back up to the message I quoted for you.

Attention to detail makes all the difference.

Sorry, it must have been a different poster. You have stopped responding to my arguments and have become pedantic. We have exausted this discussion. I enjoyed it but it is over.

I want you to look back over the conversation. Notice how each time I actually engage with your argument, you immediately pivot to arguing something completely different. We haven’t ‘exhausted this discussion’, you’ve avoided having it at every turn. Maybe if you want to actually discuss any of these actual points, we could try again sometime, but I’m pretty sure you’ll just keep moving the goalposts and never actually engaging with how your arguments are easily torn to shreds.