Judge Rules Alaska GOPer Is Likely Barred From Office For Being An Oath Keeper

[darrtown]

@txlawyer

That is precisely the statute I was referring to earlier, which is so laughably unconstitutional that nobody has attempted to enforce it since the 1950s.

18 U.S. Code § 2385

Making overthrow of the government illegal is unConstitutional?

[txlawyer]

@darrtown

18 U.S. Code § 2385

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Advocating it is speech. Doing is not.

[darrtown]

@txlawyer

Advocating it is speech. Doing is not.

Ah, OK
Seems a porous line however. Considering that Oath Keepers were active participants in the attempted coup on 1/6/21

[jtx]

For the reasons stated above, the court GRANTS Kowalke’s motion for a preliminary injunction, but DENIES the requestto order the Division to remove Representative Eastman from the ballot.
Instead, pursuant to the preliminary injunction in this case, the court ORDERS the Division to delay certification of the race for representative of House District 27 until after trial in this matter and further order of the court

Seems it is not all black and white

[old_guru]

I do not think that the First Amendment protects citizens from fomenting or supporting overthrow of the government. Especially not by violent means, like the Oath Keepers keep promoting.

[txlawyer]

@darrtown

Seems a porous line however.

Not especially porous, and pretty easy to stay on the advocacy side if you’re not really interested in also doing the thing you’re advocating for.

I can call for Trump’s head on a pike easily enough, but I probably shouldn’t then go purchase a bone saw and a one-way plane ticket to Palm Beach.

[darrtown]

@txlawyer

I can call for Trump’s head on a pike easily enough, but I probably shouldn’t then go purchase a bone saw and a one-way plane ticket to Palm Beach.

Might be hard to get by TSA with one of these in your carry on bag…

[occamscoin]

@dave_adams

That’s true, but the right to hold public office already has restrictions. Age, for example. Criminal record for another.

Criminal record does not bar one from federal office, short of conviction of insurrection or sedition, which has not happened since the civil war era.

[occamscoin]

@hummus_neanderthalensis

makes me very nervous about the potential fallout from this effort

Right. Which is why the critical line should be conviction in federal court of sedition or insurrection. Any lesser standard denies the candidate due process of law.

[txlawyer]

@old_guru

I do not think that the First Amendment protects citizens from fomenting or supporting overthrow of the government.

The First Amendment protects your right to be incorrect.

Especially not by violent means, like the Oath Keepers keep promoting.

Promote all the violence you want. It’s protected as free speech unless and until (1) it is directed at producing imminent lawless action and (2) it is likely to produce that imminent lawless action.

https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/492

Calling for heads on pikes is protected. Calling for heads on pikes at the head of an angry crowd gathered at the location of the persons whose heads you’re targeting is not.

[sparrowhawk]

@occamscoin

Criminial record does not bar one from federal office, short of conviction of insurrection or sedition, which has not happened since the civil war era.

That is subject to potentially change over the next year or two. Though it’s not relevant for this particular mook.

[jtx]

@txlawyer

Calling for heads on pikes is protected. Calling for heads on pikes at the head of an angry crowd gathered at the location of the persons whose heads you’re targeting is not.

Isn’t this the case here? This guy has a lifetime membership in the Oath Keepers, and the Oath Keepers and their leaders did infact try to overthrow the election with violent means

[darrtown]

@txlawyer

Calling for heads on pikes at the head of an angry crowd gathered at the location of the persons whose heads you’re targeting is not.

Like “Hang Mike Pence” which was chanted on J6 by the crowd in and out of the Capitol building as folk milled about looking for Members of Congress? Just to show the intent of some there was that guy in the House chamber holding zip ties. I don’t think he had pleasant conversation on his mind…

He may also have been armed as it looks like he had spare clips of ammo.

[txlawyer]

@jtx

Isn’t this the case here?

Not even remotely. He is not alleged to have had any participation in the insurrection, nor did he encourage it by means of speech. It would be like if I joined a fratenity in college and then the current members of my old frat attacked the Capitol a decade later. You can’t punish people for their associations, just their actions (including their conspiracies).

@darrtown

Like “Hang Mike Pence” which was chanted on J6 by the crowd in and out of the Capitol building as folk milled about looking for Members of Congress?

The “Hang Mike Pence” chanters could very plausibly be criminally charged for that speech via inciting a riot. The circumstances of that speech are certainly such that it was likely to incite imminent lawless action. Of course, there are tons of other charges those people could and have been hit with, so the unprotected speech itself is kind of beside the point.

[epicurus]

@txlawyer

You do the violent revolution, you do the time. You advocate for revolution, you’re almost always in the clear. This dude didn’t even advocate for anything, he just had a long-ago, paper-thin association with a group that eventually attempted the violent insurrection thing.

I dunno, “lifetime membership” sounds pretty substantial to me. I totally get your point about words vs. actions, however.

[josephebacon]

@ralph_vonholst

Anyone mentioned anything about a “half-baked Alaska?”

Isn’t he still awaiting trial or is he still roaming around making a fool of himself?

[occamscoin]

@epicurus

I dunno, “lifetime membership” sounds pretty substantial to me.

When I turned 16 Columbia Records gave me a lifetime membership in their record of the month club.

[karlwlewis]

Everyone LOVES the First Amendment… until someone says something they disagree with.

[hummus_neanderthalensis]

@epicurus

I dunno, “lifetime membership” sounds pretty substantial to me.

I’m pretty sure “lifetime membership” in the Oath Keepers is sort of like “lifetime membership” in the NRA: you can either sign some shit once a year and pay $50 (or whatever), or you can fill out the premium forms once, pay $500, and never have to mess with it again. It’s not the same as being an active member involved in planning or executing a particular activity or event.

Edit: fixed a spelllingg error

[jtx]

Well we will see, he violated State Law here, and the GOP is all about State Rights, and if the State of Alaska has this in their Constitution, then the GOP is going to look silly if they complain. Interesting times.