Joe Biden is a Chicken Hawk

Mr Foreign Policy Genius was an outspoken supporter of the War in Iraq, and one of a minority of Democratic Senators to vote for it. But when he had a chance to serve, he was more like Dick Cheney than John Kerry.

Joe Biden received five student draft deferments during the Vietnam War, which is the same number of deferments received by Vice President Dick “Chicken Hawk” Cheney.

After he ran out of student draft deferments, Biden was reclassified by the Selective Service System as “not available for service” because he found a doctor willing to say he had asthma as a teenager.

He was lying:

“In “Promises to Keep,” a memoir that was published last year and became an instant best-seller after he was tapped as Mr. Obama’s running mate, Mr. Biden never mentions his asthma , recounting an active childhood, work as a lifeguard and football exploits in high school.

Biden made somebody else go to fight in Vietnam in his place. Like Dick Cheney, Biden is just another privileged white male who evaded the draft.

And now Biden is lying about his support for the Iraq War.

If Biden wins the nomination, the 2020 election will be President Bone-Spurs ( R) versus Vice-President Asthma (D).

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If Biden gets the nomination would you vote for him?

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In my non-swing state, my vote makes no difference on the final outcome because we don’t have a democratic Presidential election in America. However, as I have in the past, I plan to work GOTV for the entire Democratic ticket in my neighboring swing state where I can make a difference, even if the nominee is Biden.

But I hope he isn’t the nominee because I think he will likely lose against Trump in the Electoral College.

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Absolutely. I may dislike Joe Biden’s positions but he’s head and shoulders a better man than Trump.

However, I feel my vote is irrelevant, as I live outside of Boston, MA. Who I vote for in the Presidential election feels utterly irrelevant – I believe MA will go blue, everyone knows it, and our votes are thereby already discounted. (much like w. the deep red states, once you’re a known factor you actually cease to matter much)

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Although the electoral college is the deciding factor for a win, the political result benefits from a large mandate, benefits if there are few grumpy holdouts.

Personally, I’m warm to Warren but not giving my heart to anyone. Rather than fall in love I will fall in line.

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That pretty much sums up my feelings for this election, though I’m quite a bit more warm to Warren or Sanders than you are I totally agree we need a mandate and will vote accordingly.

I just resent the Electoral College’s effect on campaigning – it’s starting to feel like gerrymandering, though with an obviously different mechanism.

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That, perhaps, not-so-rare moment in history where putting party over country is the same thing as its inverse.

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Rather than talk about the general, we should do what we can do now to prevent Biden from becoming the nominee, and that includes pointing out his lies and his awful anti-progressive record.

We have some great candidates this year, and Biden is not one of them.

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I disagree about the emphasis on prevention. I say, don’t tar any candidate, because you might have to vote for that person.

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The “vote for war” trope annoys me considerably - it is a misrepresentation of the actual import of the vote, which was to give Bush the authority to use military force against Hussein - and that vote was obtained through a campaign of lies. It was not in any way a “declaration of war” which the “vote for war” trope attempts to paint it as.

The granting authority to use force actually did being Hussein around to giving full disclosure of his WMD activites (none recently, but an accounting of all of the actual activities from before 1991 which he had never disclosed before), and he allowed UN teams back in verify his declaration, and even made a secret offer to resign.

So the vote was highly successful.

If Bush had been willing to accept yes for an answer a trillion dollars, 5000 U.S. lives, 50,000 maimed U.S. soldiers, and several hundred thousand Iraqi lives would have been saved. It is entirely on him that he wanted a war and was eager to lie to get it.

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“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” :smiley:

I actually think it is far past time to start talking about Biden’s memory problems. I think he is showing signs of senility. They aren’t gaffes…his memory is failing. The evidence just continues to mount but people are just dancing around the issue, and no one wants to just come out and say it.

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Voting to give Bush and Cheney the authorization to go to war was a huge mistake. Most Democrats voted against it. And many people knew and were saying so at the time that the rationale was built on lies.

Furthermore, the record shows that Biden was a huge supporter of the war after it started, and is now lying about that support.

This is what he said in February 2003:

“Let everyone here be absolutely clear, I supported the resolution to go to war. I am not opposed to war to remove weapons of mass destruction from Iraq. I am not opposed to war to remove Saddam from those weapons if it comes to that.”

This is what he said in April 2004, 2 years after the war started:

“This administration is full of exceedingly bright, patriotic, and well-meaning people. And I’m not being gratuitous. I’m stating the obvious, particularly the neo-conservatives in this administration among the brightest, most articulate people in the country, but they began this undertaking in my view, with one fundamentally flawed assumption. And that is that Saddam Hussein posed an imminent threat to the United States of America.”

Joe Biden loves to praise Republicans, doesn’t he?

It wasn’t until late 2005 that he admitted his vote was a mistake:

“It was a mistake,” Biden said. “It was a mistake to assume the president would use the authority we gave him properly.”

“I never argued that there was an imminent threat,” he added. “We gave the president the authority to unite the world to isolate Saddam. And the fact of the matter is, we went too soon. We went without sufficient force. And we went without a plan.”

It is always a mistake to trust Republicans. Biden still has not learned that lesson.

But now he says:

“Everybody looks at it now, and says, we voted to go to war. It was not a vote to go to war. It was a vote to give the authority to the president to avoid war by keeping the pressure on Saddam Hussein. The president misused the power.”

So:

In 2005: “Let everyone here be absolutely clear, I supported the resolution to go to war.

But in 2019: “Everybody looks at it now, and says, we voted to go to war. It was not a vote to go to war.

It is “absolutely clear.”

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I just wanna quote this to REALLY AGREE WITH IT. (sorry about the shouting, but this gerontocracy BS has got to stop – at some point in time everyone becomes too old for the presidency because you lose your mental capacities or because of physical disability)

I agree with a minimum age, and I’m kind Roman in nature so pegging it to 42 works for me – but if we can acknowledge we should have a minimum age why can’t we also have a maximum age?

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I have to wonder if anyone in The Hive believed (at the time) the Bush and Cheney WMD claims. Remember the pile of paper on a table that Bush showcased as proof? It was a stack of paper. Nothing more. I’m not sure Bush or Cheney even went to the trouble of marking it up with a Sharpie or anything. That’s so lazy.

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From what I can find, Biden released medical records in 2008 that documented severe seasonal allergies that resulted in a childhood diagnosis of asthma. If you have a valid source that suggests that the reports on those records is incorrect, let alone that as an adult Biden found a doctor who provided a false diagnosis, please share it.

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True dat! Under “normal” circumstances, I think I’m just moderately liberal. Under the “real” circumstances and given how we’re now decades from where we need to be, I think the proper response has to be go as far left as we can to get to a sense of rebalancing our cosmic world. In the end, though, I’ll take what we get (and sigh (again) about the incremental approach.) Aside also from worrying about the electoral college, the Senate balance is a big problem.

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also in a blue state with few EC votes. I think we should

excite the next generation of Democrats to participate in government.

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But, was Biden actively promoting the Viet Nam war? Pretty much everybody tried to get out of the draft. The hypocrisy was in promoting the war while avoiding it yourself.

Many of us are White Males.


What’s the point of this?

I honestly do not understand the libidinous lust of ‘Intercept Democrats’ for debasing/trashing/denigrating Democratic candidates. Politics is a Team Sport. Biden is objectively too damn old, has some senior moments, has many past and current positions out of step with the current times.

But, many Democratic voters like and trust him. He’s a decent guy. He may well be the nominee.

We can acknowledge the objective facts without indulging in hyperbolically negative subjective characterizations.

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Might I instead offer “his hypocrisy”? My brother ate up college deferments then claimed a motorcycle accident damaged his knee beyond the ability to serve – I’ve never heard him talk about it again, or ever limp.

(I might never forgive him for dodging service, IMO, or my father for not going to WWII and I don’t even know what his excuse was as he died when I was in second or third grade)

{edit: added knee, because I can’t type and changed “A” to “his” because I meant to reply to the OP, not just rant}