They don’t want Trump…they won’t vote for Hillary…what to do? What to do?
Hey, I’ve got it! Why don’t they just disenfranchise themselves like they do to minorities…after all, it’s not like voting is a right or anything?
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I read a piece on that theory on HuffPo as part of their ongoing series “Illogical Attempts to Scare Democrats”.
This country is far too polarized for such a scheme to be successful. In most states siphoning off a small % of the vote is enough to throw it to Democrats. Siphoning off a large %of the GOP vote, even in ruby red states (where this plan would have the best chance of working) would, again, throw the vote to the Democrats. So, in, say, Kansas, HRC could probably win the state with just 40‰ of the vote or even less. That would be the story across the country. In some states the Third Party establishment candidate might get 33%, Trump gets, say, 28‰, and Clinton wins the EVs with just 35‰. In the end, it would be a devastating, epic landslide for Clinton.
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Assuming there is still a rational part of the GOP establishment (and that’s a big assumption), they need to become more like the DLC. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative (an MSM wet dream). They won’t be a contender for the Presidency perhaps ever, but they will be a power broker in caucus politics - capable of tilting the house or senate their way on specific legislation. Such a situation would serve their moneyed masters well and in a more sustainable fashion than the current marriage with religious fanatics, conservative purists, and racists. They would take a beating in the short term, but they may get more of want they want in the long term. I don’t think there is anyone left with the courage to do this though as it would start with kicking Trump and Cruz out of the party.
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OMG, I AM SOOOOOOO SICK OF THAT FACE. I am so sick of the ‘TRUMP’ name. He’s F’G NUTZ. And so is CREEPY Ben Carson. He appeared on ‘THE VIEW’ yesterday…HE is soooo CREEPY.
Time was that the GOP was an electoral juggernaut, at least at the presidential level. From 1972 through 1988, they collected over 81% of the available electoral votes, stomping the Dems 4 times out of 5 with massive margins. Now they are this pitiful band of extremists that can’t nominate anyone with credibility, and constantly embarrass themselves trying. They were never that good at policy, but at politics they were at least competent. Not anymore.
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The GoP will have to live with their Frankenstein! He is a horrible monster towards women and people of color and that is the primary reason his ass will be dead grass in Nov 2016!
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How about if they ran a Nader like figure against Hillary? I’m not saying Nader was a right-wing double agent, but the result was the same. Could this work again?
This is the trait of a 21st century self absorbed puny white man in America, who is trying his best to grab the strings of power! He MUST NEVER be given the keys to anything, including the keys to HELL!
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This article buries the correct answer to its question at the very bottom. Of course a third party candidate guarantees Hillary the presidency… this is all about salvaging the down ticket races.
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I think all Democrats, liberals, progressives and the rest of the world agree with you. It’s only the Republicans who seem stymied about how to proceed with this fiasco. When the Clinton oppo research machine cranks up and starts running full speed ahead, Trump will be blasted non-stop - even his stumpy little twitter fingers won’t be able to keep up. In the end he will be exposed for the con man he’s always been.
The media, of course, will feast on the spectacle and savor every titillating exchange and insult. Fact check? Probably not. Why work for a living when you can just repeat what the candidates say and whip up outrage?
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First, who would such a Nader-like figure be? Second, such a strategy would, in the small likelihood of success only throw the election to Trump, which is supposed to be the outcome they are trying to prevent. Nor would it help Republicans in down ticket races.
Agree. This is getting scary. Not in the old school sense where we’re more concerned with all the traditional garbage that Republicans pull when in office. But in a legitimately “holy shit we’re looking at WWIII” sort of a way. Trump is legitimately dangerous. He lacks just about every quality ever considered a positive when running for the U.S. Presidency, but has all the markings of an irrational, reactionary authoritarian.
Further, I know people who openly and proudly support this monster. People I once had respect for.
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I mean in addition to the establishment candidate, a four person race. I don’t know who, but egotistical narcissism is not limited to the right wing, as Nader proved.
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It’s the kind of disaster that elects Democrats.
I would not have chosen this way for the GOP to implode but I’ll take it. He will destroy the GOP downballot and we can very possibly start to get control of Congress back.
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All of that is worth his candidacy to me.
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That might be a genuine worry in the days before, well, Nader and the internet. Republicans might’ve been able to get away with such a plan years ago, but it would be virtually impossible to do so now without it being exposed. And after Nader I just don’t believe there’s any real appetite on the left for a third party candidate that potentially throws the election to a Republican. We actually now have a real life example of the death, destruction, and long term damage to the country that such a third party candidate did when it helped elect Bush. Plus, they’d have to find the money to finance such a candidate when GOP donors would already be stretched thin between the RNC/Trump candidacy and the establishment/Third Party candidate.
I think you have it exactly right.
Tierney did a great job going out and finding expert views, but, the question of “Why A Third Party Alternative Won’t Save the GOP From Trump” isn’t one that is hard to answer. Trump’s supporters are Republicans and those who lean that way, and the GOP can’t put together a third party that draws from any different pool of voters.
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There is a poll out for a 3 way race between Clinton, Trump and Johnson, a libertarian. Clinton 42, Trump 34 and Johnson 11. I would suspect that some of Johnson’s 11 percent is from republicans who don’t want to vote for Trump or Clinton. I noticed that the poll numbers added up to 87 percent, so there were still 13 percent who couldn’t or wouldn’t commit to one of these three choices. Unless this third party candidate is super awesome, I don’t see him/her getting more than 13 percent plus a share of Johnson’s 11 percent, and maybe a small share from Clinton or Trump. Clinton still wins.
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Agreed. Drumpf is an embarrassment to thinking people everywhere.
The reality is this: he is on the national stage. As long as it’s the Republican’s show, there is precious little you or I can do to remove him. We should be laying precautionary sandbags against the flood of shit Drumpf is going spew forth.
We won’t change the minds of the true believers – it’s been tried (viz, Romney, Bush, et al.) and failed. What we do is to teach people vulnerable to his appeals how to think about what Donnie Dimwitt has to say. The facts, the myth and the lie.
Por ejemplo, if you had a problem with deer browsing in your vegetable garden and the deer were transiting your neighbor’s property you might well want a fence to keep the deer out. The property line is a reasonable place to put the fence: who should pay for the fence? The deer are crossing your neighbor’s property and probably doing some incidental damage, but it isn’t bothering your neighbor. Obviously, if you want the fence built, you should pay for it.
The Facts
Donnie Dimwitt claims that ‘Mexicans’ crossing the border are huge problem. The fact is that Mexican nationals are only a fraction of the undocumented people in this country. Many more come from Central America, where they are fleeing civil war and poverty. Another huge fraction crosses borders other than the southern border, mostly coming from Asia. A smaller fraction abuses our visa system, as Donnie Dimwitt’s wife did prior to marrying his bank account.
The Myth
Donnie says that our undocumented immigrant problem can be solved by building a fence near the U.S.- Mexico border. Let’s set aside for a moment the fact that a 20 foot fence only creates a market for 22 foot ladders, and the fact that building such a fence is difficult. Let’s ask only if a fence solves the problem of undocumented immigrants. Note that the fence does nothing to address the undocumented immigrants who are already here: something like 11 million of them. Note too that the fence does nothing to stop people like Melania Trump who abuse the visa system. Nor does the fence do anything about most people coming over from Asia – they tend to enter through Canada or through US ports.
The Lie
Drumpf is lying when he says a fence would be an effective answer to a non-existent problem. Donnie Dimwitt is prone to lie like this: he prefers over-simplified answers to complex problems. Undocumented migrants are a problem, and a complex problem. Reasonable people can disagree about the magnitude of the problem, but they cannot disagree that proposed solutions should have a chance of being effective. A border fence at the southern border isn’t an effective solution.
The Big Lie
Donnie Dimwitt not only assures us that the fence will solve the “problem” of undocumented immigrants, but also that he will make the Mexican Government pay for the fence. That is like imagining the homeowner whose garden is being attacked by deer forcing his neighbor to pay for a fence to keep the deer out.
That’s not happening: you know it, and I know it.
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Yeah, but any 3rd party candidate offered by the GOP will not siphon votes away from the Dems or prevent Dems from winning their usual 247 electoral votes. it will only split the GOP into fragments, probably forcing their usual base into unfamiliar ticket-splitting and therefore losing both the Senate, and maybe the House.
Well, I hope you are right, but I expect some billionaire group is gaming out this possibility and looking for someone they can convince this is their big chance. It seems to me this is a huge opportunity to size power in the chaos of a four way election.