Discussion: What Happens If Trump Refuses To Be Interviewed By Mueller?

[leftcoaster]

You are bad very bad go to your tree.

[lanabill]

At what point after a subpoena does the preemptive strike on N Korea take place? How long will the dust (radiation?) cloud take to clear enough for a re-focus?

[abbymac]

Somehow I suspect that trying the old “the president is immune from having to testify because he is a known liar and therefore this is a “perjury trap”” just doesn’t seem like a solid winning Constitutional argument

[johnbarleycorn]

Frankly, I’m surprised Trump hasn’t fired Mueller already.

While the political punditry thinks there’d be serious consequences for doing so, the Repug establishment has shown repeatedly that they are prepared to do…nothing. At this point, he really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue in New York, and Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell would just shrug and go, “At least we’re getting good judicial nominees and, hey, how about that tax break! A dollar fifty extra every week for the working class? Shits just SHOWERIN money, amirite?”

The only people who have the power to do something about it have already signaled they don’t give a rat’s ass. Under those circumstances, shit, even I already woulda fired the guy.

[lestatdelc]

Ah, this is settled law.

Bill Clinton was served a subpoena and only then did he agree to be questioned by Special Prosecutor (now called Special Counsel) Ken Starr.

From CNN back in 1998:

WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, July 26) – Independent counsel Ken Starr served President Bill Clinton with a subpoena in recent days that calls for his testimony before the Monica Lewinsky grand jury next week, CNN has learned.

[bankerpup]

I don’t see Trump getting interviewed by any investigative team. He’s invested too much trying to obstruct the investigation to back down now.

I’d like to be wrong about this.

[sniffit]

@khyber900

The courts will uphold the subpoena. Trump will then cry foul and then he will thumb his nose at the GJ process. Now, Mueller can go soft and make an impeachment referral or just choose not to do anything and let Trump walk, or he’ll get pissed that Trump flouts the rule of law and will seek an indictment.

He’ll do no such thing without sufficient facts and evidence. The appropriate next step is to bring a complaint for contempt for failure to obey the subpoena, at which point, if the court finds contempt, it will levy civil penalties for his refusal. Usually, that takes the form of $X/day to incentivize compliance. For Trump, due to his vast wealth, Mueller will have to argue for a massive daily fine on the grounds that anything else is just a non-incentive window dressing and will serve no purpose other than to embarrass the court as Trump scoffs at it. If it got far enough, the court might consider criminal contempt remedies, at which point we’d start hearing (hopefully) a lot of chatter about a truly lawless POTUS who has no respect for the equal power of the judicial branch and should be impeached to protect the separation of powers and checks and balances in our gov’t. Of course, all this includes the possibility that Trump appeals and seeks a friendly GOP-appointed single justice to quash the subpoena and contempt finding.

[dave_mb]

@sniffit

“that’s it…this deposition is over…we’ve had it with your bias and gestapo tactics” and storming out of the room. I’ve seem people play that game before when they know sitting through a deposition is going to be a total shitshow for them

Yes, and sometimes when the client is going astray, the lawyer starts objecting for no reason at all, to warn the client to straighten up and fly right. I’ve stopped more than one deposition to admonish the other attorney for that.

[thebigragu]

@lanabill

At what point after a subpoena does the preemptive strike on N Korea take place?

Preemptive? Wasn’t that the “Bush Doctrine” and rationale for invading Iraq?

[tena]

@bankerpup

I’d like to be wrong about this.

really?

[mattinpa]

@maximus

Just add some sodium pentathol to Donnie’s daily Thorazine dart.

He’ll be chock fill of truthiness…

Problem solved.

Well, you could suggest that to his lawyers. They might decide he’s a whole bunch better off lying.

[bluinmaine]

What Happens?
subpoena
contempt of court
indictment
arrest
mugshot
Bail
Fly to russia at night
Just guessing.

[lestatdelc]

Maybe he and Snowden can hang out after he flees to Mother Russia™.

[sniffit]

I know what you mean…the old objection-as-instruction game. Technically, in depos, you’re only supposed to say “objection,” but every time I’m hammering some little turd in a depo, particularly one with big firm representation, the lawyers start saying things like “objection, speculative” or “objection, foundation” or “objection” followed by something else. Invariably, the client picks up on it, then says something like “oh, I really don’t know, I’d just be guessing” or “I really don’t remember…do you have something on which you base that question?”

[nemo]

Not a chance that Trump will talk to Mueller. If Mueller subpoenas him, he will simply flout the subpoena. I even wonder if he will challenge it in court or if he’ll just launch into constitutional crisis that in any event is his gameplan. Either way, Trump will seek to discredit Mueller in the most confrontational and extreme way possible. He perhaps feels that he doesn’t even need to fire Mueller any more, so far gone is he in his campaign to discredit him. I really don’t know what the big mystery here is. There will be a constitutional crisis because the alternative for Trump is existentially negative.

The question is: What will Mueller do when this all goes down? One option, if/when Trump pushes back, would be to arrest/indict Kushner and Don Jr. in the hope that Trump’s refusal to talk to Mueller becomes untenable and (less likely) that they will flip on DT. This is high risk and highly provocative to Trump and won’t be done until Mueller has every scrap of evidence he needs. So this thing might drag for months.

[thebigragu]

@lestatdelc

Maybe he and Snowden can hang out after he flees to Mother Russia

Whoa then he and Donnie Jr can sell their fake Rolex watches to Russians in Red Square or the Nevsky Prospekt in St Petersburg.

[wlarip]

I don’t think it will destroy him.

Pardon is out. He would be indicted on state charges. The dominoes are going to start collaborating with Mueller. Up to here, it’s been he said:he said. He’s careful about not leaving a paper trail. He has deposition history and though he has lost cases, those losses have been manageable. He lies for opportunism, not for ego. It is unlikely that Mueller will be able to goad him into a stupid mistake. Unless Mueller can elicit an demonstrably false statement, it will remain he said:he said.

Don’t underestimate him. That’s how be became President. He is ruthless but he is not stupid.

[mattinpa]

@thebigragu

Preemptive? Wasn’t that the “Bush Doctrine” and rationale for invading Iraq?

BD is preventive, when there’s a potential for attack in the future, but no imminent threat. When there is it’s preemptive.

[adabsurdum]

Whatsoever Trump’s legal justification, fleeing testimony before Mueller will expose him for the clucking chicken cuck that he is from a political standpoint. Democrats could then bitch slap him and his enablers all the way until November.

[thebigragu]

@nemo

So this thing might drag for months.

Only months. How about years?