Is it just me, or are some conservatives really demanding a new Nixon tough guy figure to quell the domestic upheavals?
I think we need to get a straightforward, out-front debate going throughout the whole country about WHY so many clashes with police have been happening lately. I hope by Election Day enough of the public will understand how we’ve gotten to the dysfunctional state we’re in, and not just blame the “rioters” who clutter up our widescreen TVs with upsetting images, and disturb the average American psyche with their anger.
Thank you for this discussion. As these incidents unfold will probably continue to progress, my greatest fear has been the return of 1968, the election of a new Nixon, and another right wing realignment that lasts another 40 years like it did last time based on fear and racism. Reading these comments are reassuring in many ways. The times are different. There are less white voters overall and the ones remaining are less racist. There is no threat of white flight, since it already happened years ago. The discussion in the news and the media has surprisingly focused on the injustices of the city and even in forums dominated by conservatives, they acknowledge that there is a systemic abuse of minorities in the cities. I am hopeful that this frame hangs on. We do have some more recent events that prove that it might hold. The Rodney King riots didn’t affect the 1992 election. The Oakland occupy riots didn’t hurt Obama in 2012. I hope and pray that we can actually move on constructively from these events instead of how we handled them 50 years ago… which was a disaster for our county.
Yep. That would have been Chris Christie or Rudy Giuliani if it were 50 years ago. I think that the activist who are the base of the party insist that the candidate believe both halves of the Christofascist platform. Reagan was good at faking the former part and probably gets a pass because he was so good a the latter. Walker is(was) attempting to walk this same path with his protests/unions = IS talking point. [quote=“LordMike, post:23, topic:19714, full:true”]
I haven’t seen it yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it happens. It’s been a winning strategy for them for the last half century, why stop now.
[/quote]
I’d argue that they haven’t won a presidential election on white backlash since 88. The backlash that helped them win in 04 was based on anti-gltb Christian backlash; anti-lgbt has practically become a third rail in 10 years. The last two elections they used the Southern Strategy resulted in solid defeats.
Protests are fine, fine old tradition. Riots, they also has lots of history, including shooting people that put others in danger. Throwing a chunk of concrete that injures someone will get you several years in prison in any state I have been in. Why should a goon that does that because he/she is angry be different? Biggest mistake made in Ferguson was not shooting the first person that torched a building. Arson is a serious felony that can lead to death. Politicians that condone dangerous criminal behavior as political protest are putting the public at risk and do not deserve their jobs.
The last two elections the GOP put up mediocre candidates that inspired no one. Bob Dole revisited. Neither were willing to fight and scrap when it was needed. Too bad, if ether were in this economy would be in a lot better shape. 0.2% growth, six years after the end of the recession? By now we should have had a boom and be sliding into the next downturn, not this treading water crap. Whatever happened to the laser-like focus?
A white dominated America wants everyone armed. Laws controlling sales to people with mental health issues are fought. Unregulated gun shows flourish. Background checks, by law, disappear into the ether shortly after a gun sale is finalized. Police wade into their daily shifts in a country where damned near every human being that can draw a breath owns (or very well may own) a gun. And they may have it on them. It’s no damned wonder police often default to shooting people. I think many “I thought he had a gun” pleas are after the act ass covering excuses. But many are real. You clutch damned near anything in your hand in all but the best lit environment and you may be toast if accosted by an officer. A wallet, a phone, a soda can: BLAM!, you’re dead. Blame the cops when they’ve been grievously negligent. Blame a gun crazed society for much of the rest.
Worse yet, if Republicans begin to return to backlash politics, some Democrats may get happy feet and return to their old habit of reflexively supporting aggressive police tactics and tougher sentencing in order to preserve their appeal to the shrinking minority of white voters willing to support them.
I just don’t see this happening right now. We seem to be coming down off of a 35+ year cycle of stricter “law and order” measures and I think there is growing awareness that it has been a failure for the United States. Both in terms of raw numbers and percentages, the United States has the largest prison population in the world - yet we continue to have the same problems that led to the explosion of stricter law and order measures in the first place. The stricter laws were intended to have a deterrent effect, but the argument for deterrence can no longer be made because it simply isn’t working (as evidenced by the growing prison population). I also think that both the left and the right are starting to recognize the extreme cost of our prisons - both the financial cost and the cost of labeling so many people as criminals which creates a largely permanent class of unemployable people who often either become dependent on government welfare or continue to lead a life of criminality because there are no other opportunities. Finally, I would not underestimate the pure psychological effect of telling voters that here in the land of the free, we have more prisoners than in Russia.
To me, the difference between the previous cycle of backlash law and order politics and the present is that the arguments just aren’t there right now to support increased “law and order” measures. If the right goes hard law and order, it is just way to easy for the left to counter that the right is trotting out the same failed ideas that will lead to greater costs but no increased benefit to public safety. I just don’t see the left taking this angle during this election cycle.
I think people are beginning to realize that even a criminal charge will make a young man unemployable. Unemployable young men often become career criminals. We are caught in a self defeating feedback loop.
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We’re finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
CSNY
Special assist: Jim Rhodes
Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard):
Jeffrey Glenn Miller; age 20; 265 ft (81 m) shot through the mouth; killed instantly
Allison B. Krause; age 19; 343 ft (105 m) fatal left chest wound; died later that day
William Knox Schroeder; age 19; 382 ft (116 m) shot in the back; fatal chest wound; died almost an hour later in a hospital while undergoing surgery
Sandra Lee Scheuer; age 20; 390 ft (120 m) fatal neck wound; died a few minutes later from loss of blood
Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):
Joseph Lewis Jr.; 71 ft (22 m); hit twice in the right abdomen and left lower leg
John R. Cleary; 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound
Thomas Mark Grace; 225 ft (69 m); struck in left ankle
Alan Michael Canfora; 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist
Dean R. Kahler; 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae, permanently paralyzed from the chest down
Douglas Alan Wrentmore; 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee
James Dennis Russell; 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and in the right forehead by birdshot, both wounds minor
Robert Follis Stamps; 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock
Donald Scott MacKenzie; 750 ft (230 m); neck wound
Courtesy: Wiki
in 2004, conservatives placed anti-GLBT amendments and other items on the ballot. That drew out the Reich Wing loonies to vote, which carried Bush over the edge. That isn’t happening in 2016.
until said young man/woman realizes the consequences, they will continue to behave like children. And until the rest of us drive that point home, through schools, homes churches and any other ways available, they will continue to do stupid stuff. BTW, in absolute numbers more white kids are jammed up than black, but no one talks about that.
I take it you have never had a kid who made a mistake. That is great thinking except that an unemployable young person might have no choice but crime when he comes to his senses if he can’t qualify for a decent job.
Kids have been doing stupid stuff for thousands of years. Shenigans pulled in my youth, by me and friends, resulted in stern lectures, escorts home, loss of privileges, etc. We matured, went to school, became successful and most everyone turned out OK. Today the very same stunts we pulled, what we smoked and drank, gets kids a criminal record that hounds them for life. We weren’t raised poorly, we were dumb kids pushing the boundaries. The law enforcement and justice system today ruins kids that 50 years ago they treated far differently.
