I don’t think the polls show much difference among the Democratic candidates in the general. In fact, they don’t show much difference among the Republicans either in the general.
If Hillary turns things around, then she is probably a stronger candidate than Bernie. But is she doesn’t, she might actually be weaker. Voters are discontented and looking for something different and new, and that isn’t limited only to Republican primary voters. Hillary, whatever her pluses and minuses isn’t new. Bernie is. Yeah, they can call him a socialist, but that didn’t work against Obama and say one thing for socialism in America, it isn’t same-old same-old.
Things don’t change over an 18 month time frame. The fastest social conversion I’ve ever seen is gay marriage and from the time the gay rights movement really became a force, it took about 10 years. Political persuasions move incrementally. The question is when does that incremental movement start to reap benefits. For instance, if you look at demographic change, that obviously takes at least a generation or two, but Dems will start seeing the benefits from that over the next few elections.
I grew up among these types. I currently live in Central Virginia, college-town Charlottesville, but still am surrounded by a large number of them. You are correct. Many of them are insincere and some of them know it – they know very well they are espousing views and encouraging actions that the Gospels find reprehensible. Some of them know very well they are not really acting like or following Jesus’ teachings. Part of it is money – they sincerely in their guts hate the idea of any of their taxes being used for “those types.” Their solution(s): Rely on your church for assistance. These are the “bootstrap” people to the hilt – and they don’t care if you don’t have a bootstrap, too bad for you. I am not kidding – their core “belief” is that if you or your own can’t support you then it is God’s will you suffer the consequences.
A not-insignifant part of Tea Party is comprised of Economic Populists who are as angry at Wall Street as OWS was. I can see this…strange bedfellows, but somewhat encouraging.
The thing is, the election is decided by the mushy low-information “independents” in the middle, not the hard core Republicans. Those are the ones who are less likely to consider Obama a socialist based on the rantings of teabaggers, but also less likely to vote for Sanders based on his self-identification as one.
You have to admit that Sanders is NOT your typical candidate. He just isn’t. So you gotta give people a chance to get used to him. Can you think of another candidate that has won the presidency that is remotely like Bernie Sanders? He breaks the mold in every way. He is not polished. He’s pretty old and he looks it. He’s kind of cranky sounding. He’s not very eloquent. He’s an on-message machine which has its drawbacks, meaning he sounds more like a salesman than any other candidate.
I like a lot of what he says, but I have no illusion that any of what he wants would ever EVER be enacted. Even with a Democratic House and Senate I doubt Sanders would get much of his agenda passed. Do you think rank and file Democrats would actually nuke Wall Street? Raise taxes on the wealthy an actually put that money towards SS without getting their grubby hands on that money first? If you think most Democrats are willing to stick their necks out that far then you have not been paying attention. And I don’t see a ruthless side to Sanders. If Democrats aren’t willing to do hard work, then someone has to make them do the hard work. Obama and Pelosi and Reid and Durbin were great at that. Hillary is a fucking ninja at that. Sanders? C’mon.
I think Sanders is a nice guy. His life’s work is inspiring. But I don’t believe in him. I just don’t. I have zero belief that if he is president he will get anything done. But I could be persuaded. I love the hopey-changey stuff. I really do. But I just don’t feel it when it comes to Sanders.
As long as the Republicans have a lock on the House, which they will throughout the next President’s term, no Democratic President would get much done. What do you think Hillary would get through that bunch of Neanderthals? Now, a Republican President could get things done, but I doubt you would like them.
EDIT: I note that Obama got nothing done after 2010, other than by executive action, and Bernie’s pen is as good as Hillary’s.
I’m not around this lot very much. I’m struck by how emotive they are. Almost too much. Its the tell I’m talking about. They seem to have each crafted this persona of authenticity then oversell it. I’m like, have you understood anything at all about your faith? Have you understood even one of the red letter words?
I’m struck by it as well – because I, myself, went to Sunday School (Southern Baptist) in the late 60s - mid-70s – and they sure don’t seem have picked up on what me and my sister did, even my older more conservative brothers are closer to my way of thinking that these fakers. I see it, too, it’s a mask almost.
I don’t want to get into another session of Bernie bashing. I really do like the guy. If he somehow pulls off an upset then I’ll go to work for the guy and hope he will be the best president ever.
It was interesting to see and hear the audience when Bernie Sanders was at Liberty U. He definitely had a cheering section, but when the camera showed the audience, most were sitting in stony silence. Props to Bernie for taking it to them how conservatives don’t seem to care much about the children who result from those fetuses they so love; of course one question at the end was how if Bernie cares about children, shouldn’t he care even more about the unborn.
You seem to be mistaken. I support Sanders, heck I used to be a registered Socialist so I’m likely much more to the “left” of many people here and by most accounts, I’m more left than Bernie is. My point, which you seem to be missing, is that first you have to win an election, then you can begin moving the needle and if I think Bernie can’t win against the likely GOP candidate, and I think Hillary can, then I’ll support her. If Bernie proves to be the stronger candidate and I think he can beat the GOP, then I’ll support him. It’s great to be idealistic, but it gets you no where if you can’t actually turn that idealism into legilsation (locally or nationally).
I caught the Q&A. I’ll have to watch the whole thing later. I admire his authenticity. He does not mince words, not even in a hostile environment like this.
Well, a hostile environment is the best place not to mince words. He’s not going to get a single vote from the live audience, and he knows it, so why bother trying?
That said, it’s a perfectly sensible and pragmatic thing to do, so good on him.
Liberty University makes attendance a requirement. You have to be physically excused not to attend (they did the same thing with Cruz). This is their required convocation time. I don’t know the reaction, but I would be surprised if it was genuine. No one at that school will vote for Bernie Sanders.
