Discussion: Tlaib Reignites Impeachment Push With Letter To Judiciary Dems

Au contraire. I am anything but defeatist. I will do all in my power to see that Trump is evicted from the White House. (After which it should be cleaned by a hazmat crew.) But that aim does not motivate me to spend energy on efforts that promise little chance of success, and may well strengthen him. And impeachment, at this stage, is such an effort.

Total effort to rid us of Donald Trump does not mean using any tactic, any weapon that may come to hand. That would be the path of desperation. We’re smarter than he and his allies are, right? Then let’s fight hard, and fight smart.

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Furthermore, if the Democratic House impeaches and the Republican Senate acquits, it’s another grand victory for the invincible leader! This will turn the media and popular spin in his favor and give him momentum to commit more heinous wreckage on our nation and its people. For 4 more years.

If we start impeachment, we have to be able to ensure removal from office. Anything less is disaster for us.

Don’t ignore the dozens of Congressional investigations that are following up on Mueller’s findings and making the case for criminal prosecution. This is the way to use Congressional power to expose the truth and stop the encroaching disease of trumpism.

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I think you are the one who needs a history lesson. “Bad shit” did not happen to the Republicans when they impeached Bill Clinton. In the 2000 elections they held the House and the Senate (barely), and they won the Presidency.

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We all know trump is guilty. Even the Republicans know. But it’s political suicide for them to admit it, so they all play along to save their hides.

The fact is that we need a certain number of Republicans to drop their guard and admit that there are sufficient grounds to remove trump from office. Mitch McConnell has a stranglehold on them, and he is powerful enough to destroy them if they don’t comply. We may never see enough Republicans willing to buck McConnell. They have signed their deal with the devil.

So we thought maybe the Mueller report would convincingly expose the venal criminality of this whole administration, the crime family and the mob organization that grifts its way through scams and money-laundering. It didn’t happen. Other law enforcement agencies may yet sweep them up in their nets. For now Congress must use what power it has wisely.

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Maybe you could be a little less condescending about someone who’s playing an important role & one that’s very different from Pelosi’s important role?

It makes perfect sense for Pelosi to not be publicly pressing for impeachment. It also makes perfect sense for other Democrats, with different constituencies (both in their districts and nationally in terms of appeal), to be seriously looking at it. The party itself needs to be big enough to contain a variance of opinion on things like this.

Part of the reason that Pelosi needs to not be backing impeachment right now is that any move to impeach has to be organic and fact driven, not coming from leadership as a tactic. Tlaib’s letter is about an inquiry to determine whether there is grounds for impeachment. Its a very good way to get the ball on the floor, even if we are a ways from taking it down the court and taking a shot.

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The actual Mueller report may do this. Maybe.

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I absolutely agree that impeachment shouldn’t be started unless we have the votes, but note that this letter is urging an inquiry, not impeachment itself.

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If you really mean the first two statements, then the third is at best morally ambiguous.

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Well said.

(Doesn’t mean Pelosi’s task is an easy one.)

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Except they didn’t “Win” they “STOLE”

@old_curmudgeon,

This is where we disagree. It’s not about tactically winning this battle, even though the odds are against it. It’s about putting up a fight and letting the public see that you’re willing to put up a vigorous fight. I contend that the reason the public has abandoned the Democratic party is because they see that if the Dems are not willing to fight for something that is brutally obvious (that Trump is unfit, criminal, and illegitimate) and push through the weaponized insincerity and legalistic nonsense that amounts to an argument on the other side, how are the Dems ever going to be able to take on corporate interests or secure healthcare.

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This is such a weird take that keeps popping up. Could someone please review the next 10 years of political history after the Republicans impeached Clinton for lying about a blowjob in an unrelated investigation about a real estate deal and a suicide?

Yeah. It didn’t go badly for the GOP. Please remember that.

So? Politics is often morally ambiguous. It puts practicality ahead of idealism. It puts realism ahead of dreams. It’s the making of the sausage.

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Nope. The election was not stolen. The imperfections of the system worked to the Republicans’ advantage. Maybe they were more aware that that could happen than Democrats were, or maybe the Republicans just got lucky. Whatever. But they did not steal the election.

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Let me see if I can put it simply. IT’S ABOUT WINNING IN 2020.

Everything else is backstory until that happens.

Well, so long as one isn’t completely ceding moral concerns to others …

Yup, because that’s what the data indicate.

You really think Republican Senators want to have a vote to convict or not after a prosecutor has laid out the case in public?

Yup, because that’s what the data indicate.

You really think that Republican Senators want the Senate tied up for months in a trial, and the media focused on it for even longer?

Yup, because that’s what the data indicate.

Impeachment would unite Democrats and divide Republicans. The Republicans are the ones who don’t want impeachment and a Senate trial, regardless of the outcome.

Nope. You’re 100% wrong on both counts. Democrats aren’t united on this (and it’s entirely possible that the House wouldn’t vote to impeach) and Republicans are. There is not a single vote for impeachment or conviction.

But Democrats seem to always do what their Republican Daddy’s want.

Only if you’re an idiot. To the rest of us, Democrats are doing precisely what they should be doing: gathering additional data and holding the Trump administration accountable.

Grow up and join the real world.

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McConnell.

Get real and stop living in this fantasy world of yours.

Now, we finally agree.

In simpler terms than I said it elsewhere in the thread: We need this from Tlaib just as much as we need Pelosi saying “we’re not looking at impeachment right now.” Its good cop-bad cop. I’m not saying its necessarily coordinated (tho I’m sure Pelosi got a heads up on this) but that they’re both smart enough to know that having these two lines onstage at the same time is complementary.

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