Not that it really matters, but wtf is the use of putting an orange marking on the end of a pellet gun. It doesn’t actually let anyone distinguish between toy and non-toy unless the thing is drawn and pointed in the direction of the would-be distinguisher, at which point it’s really kinda late in the game.
The police are setting things up so that they can shoot even a kid who complies with the law completely. (Unless someone knows a way to throw a gun away without grasping it first.)
Oh, OK – thanks, I can see why the other posts would very much change how this one would be received. I haven’t seen their Facebook page, but after coming down on the STL Rams the way they did, I can just imagine what they were like.
Still, this particular one is good advice. In a better world, it wouldn’t be needed, but that’s not where we are living right now.
The fact that it is totally legal isn’t going to mean much when your kid is totally dead.
yeah, there is a disconnect in this story. the headline versus the content. whatever happened to either one…something was lost in translation or editing
There are two parts here though. Yes, you have the police responding to a call that some kid is running around with what might be a gun, and that situation is an undertrained police officer with built-in prejudices looking at this kid with this purported weapon in his hand and needing to make a quick decision if the kid is a threat or not, etc.
Before that, though, you have the moron calling the police saying that some kid is running around with what might be a gun. That call gets made due to non-police societal-borne prejudices, reinforced by everything from Uncle Jimmy’s racist Thanksgiving rants to Limbaugh’s venomous diatribes to cop shows and video games, as well as the less intentional subtle racism pass-downs made by parents who grew up in racist households who periodically let slip a “blast from the past” without thinking, etc.
I’m willing to bet that none of your neighbors growing up - and none of mine for that matter - looked out the window at us running around with a gun and thought, “Oh, that white kid with the glasses and Alfalfa cowlick sure looks like a gangster out on the prowl for a random shooting; better call the police!” But a black kid with “nappy hair” or god forbid cornrows … that’s scary.
There are lots of things that need to change in our society. They are not easy changes to make, and will take a very very long time. Correcting police behavior is a good place to start, but that’s not the end of it by far.
Really, it all just exposes the lie the Supreme Court told us not too long ago, that we are in a “post-racist” age where black kids and brown kids and yellow kids have every opportunity and advantage their less-melanin-beleaguered neighbors enjoy. It is a pernicious and damaging lie, that the far-right conservatives keep telling themselves.
…and , most importantly,
Don’t have black children!
true. that’s off topic, though. the topic is the SLPD’s tone-deaf support of murdering a child in the setting of a state in which the child was acting completely within the framework of law (setting aside the cowardice that is on full display on the video). nobody would dispute that the family only cares about one thing; the loss of their most valuable and beautiful achievement in life.
Remember, the very first State Gun Control Laws in the country were promoted, passed, and signed into law by then Gov. of California Ronald Reagan.
They were hastily enacted due to an incident where several Black Panthers were arrested for carrying guns in public, and had to be released when they found out it was not illegal to do so.
Black Man + Gun = Gun Control Laws.
What do you think would have happened in lilly-white Connecticut if the guy who killed all those children was BLACK? Yeah. I thought so.
The Justice Dept has been investigating the Cleveland PD since March.
Eric Holder just announced the Dept , by court order will be monitored going forward. Similar to what they did in Albuquerque and other cities.
I agree, and that’s why the advice here is actually good even though it fails to address the more important issues.
Even when I have a “walk” signal, I look both ways to make sure all the cars are stopping before I cross. Being right is fabulous, but being dead takes all the fun out of it.
Hate to break it to you, but there is a looooong history of kids (of all colors) being shot many, many times in the past for playing with toy guns that were mistaken for real guns. This is not a new thing. (Why do you think they put orange tip on the toy guns now?)
That post was actually sound advice. Officers will assume it is a real gun until it is identified as a toy. So, playing with a toy gun in public is not a prudent thing to do. That’s the advice they’re giving, and it’s good advice.
Now, that’s different than saying what happened in Cleveland was procedurally correct. Assuming a gun is real, and how an officer responds to that assumption, are two different things. And what happened in Cleveland was an entirely, 100% avoidable tragedy; the response was completely unprofessional and reckless. I can’t speak to the officers’ state of mind or outlook on race issues (which may also be contributing factors), but I can plainly see from the video that they were not trained properly on how to respond to a potential live-shooter situation.
But does Missouri have open-carry laws? Remember, this is the St. Louis department putting out a public message to it’s residents, not to Ohio residents.
And even if that’s true, open carry is different than actually discharging the weapon. If the dispatcher told the officers that someone was firing a gun (not just carrying one), they have to assume it is a real gun, and they have to respond consistent with the elevated risk that someone firing a real gun poses to the public and the officers.
Again, as noted in my response to Richard, that assumption doesn’t mean the officers should charge in Rambo-like, guns ablazing, in a ‘shoot-first, ask questions later’ mentality. What the Cleveland officers did - even if under the best intentions - was completely bone-headed and unprofessional. Not only did they rush in and kill an innocent, but they put themselves at unnecessary risk if, in fact, that kid had been a real shooter. This points to a serious lack of training - or the hiring of someone who was not capable of following his training (there are some subsequent stories that suggest the latter).
For what it’s worth, Cleveland’s legendary “Supercop”, James Simone, watched the tape carefully and said that the policeman acted properly.
Which is why when our kids were approaching driving age, we gave them strict instructions on how to behave if they ever came into contact with the local Sheriff’s Dept. - no sarcasm, no lip, “Yes, Sir.” We don’t like “Yes, Sir” from children around here, but for encounters with the Sheriff it was important to for them to be as servile as possible. Does this tell you something about our Sheriff? Had our kids been of the brown persuasion, we would have instructed them to positively grovel.
I thought Ohio was an Open Carry State? Yet, TWO African Americans were killed in less than 10 seconds while holding pellet guns. Either Ohio is an Open Carry State, or it’s an Open-Carry-While-White State, someone needs to decide.
Got it in one.
You would like to think, after everything that’s happened since August (and looks to continue well into the new year at this rate), an entity like the STLPD would keep a low profile and just do their damn job. But no, that’s clearly not possible. As you said, there is this snide righteousness seething beneath the surface.
Sadly, what we see them doing is a full blown reaction to being questioned on their methods for probably the very first time. Racial tension in this area is certainly nothing new, and from everything I keep reading from people who live there or lived there and moved away, law enforcement acting with impunity towards the community - specifically the black community - is about as common as breathing and the sun rising in the morning.
They’re mad, and they’re acting like a bunch of petulant bloody children. They need to stop. I have friends in law enforcement, both presently and retired. When stuff like this happens even they have trouble “backing the blue”. Right now I can’t even speak to them about Michael Brown… 
James Simone may have meant acted ‘legally’ in some twisted technical sense.
But any human being with eyesight who heard or read the dispatch transcript-- would disagree vociferously.
jw1
We can fire the politicians who enable the cops. And we can stop supporting and listening to the NRA in the misguided belief that they are anything other than a right wing propaganda outfit and promotion arm of the firearms manufacturers.
You think that’s bad? Check this out:
http://www.nycpba.org/news/pba-video/pba-141204-conference.html
Your brain? 
No, seriously, read JJs post below.