Discussion: Scholars Say Trump Went Afoul In Lumping Lee With Founders

I’ve gone completely to the other side in this argument. I once sympathized with my neighbors here in Kentucky, those who were arguing that these symbols and monuments were celebrating heritage. But in revisiting history, especially the history of these monuments, I’ve come full circle.

First, Kentucky was not part of the Confederacy; it was a border state, along with Maryland, who chose not to participate in the Civil War. So for Kentuckians to celebrate the Confederacy is rather ironic. Second, most of these monuments weren’t put up right after the Civil War, but right after the Supreme Court wrongfully defended segregation, and white nationalists attempted to “whitewash” their history. Lastly, it is laughable for people who cry about “taking their country back” are deciding that people who commit treason against the United States should be lumped in the same category as those who sought to preserve the Union.

There’s a difference between recognizing history versus memorializing it. I don’t have family members who fought for the Confederacy. One of my family members was an Army deserter during the Civil War. I acknowledge him and our history, but I don’t try to memorialize him or use him as an example of my family’s heritage. People who choose to memorialize the Confederacy need to understand that, while admirable that they want to recognize people from their past, that not all human efforts should be counted as noble, brave, or noteworthy.

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Intellectual consistency is not a strength of either POTUS or the extreme right. Newt Gingrich has given cover to anyone who wants to revise history so that it supports their twisted views. We’ve seen this same impulse in science, and you can see it in those who want to force teachers to teach “both sides” of various controversies. Stand by for state legislators filing bills to force history teachers to teach the truth about Robert E. Lee, et al.

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Trump goes afoul by breathing.

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I agree with most of what you say, but this is problematic:

Kentucky, Maryland and Missouri, slave states that did not secede, were very much involved in the war. It is true that the Kentucky legislature tried to declare neutrality in 1861, but that was laughable. As I suspect you know, Kentucky was heavily fought-over early in the conflict, and contributed thousands of soldiers to both sides.

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If Trump wants to compare Lee to Revolutionary War figures, I suggest Benedict Arnold would be more appropriate than Washington or Jefferson.

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Andrew Dalton is an AP guy. This is an AP story.
Scholars? Have they called George Mason University? Pepperdine? Liberty? Any of the other Koch-controlled Universities?(I believe the history dep’t at Florida State is one)
C’mon Andrew…
Look at life from both sides now

I’d guess, and this is just a total guess based on them fighting against a king to establish at least a partial democracy for some common men, the big difference is that Washington and Jefferson may have believed blacks were lower as people, but they probably didn’t believe you could treat them as badly as a lot of confederate folks wanted to, seemed to want to, or did. And I’d assume they had a similar feeling toward women. Less than men, but still deserving of decent treatment.

See if you like this one better:

Anyway, Trump only put Washington and Lee together because he heard somewhere that there is a Washington and Lee University.

Lee was not a great general.

Has Trump ever read a book?

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No. Not even his “own”.

There is no notable movement to tear down the Washington monument.

Not since the sad passing of Norman Mayer.

That took a scholar?
A 4th grader knows the difference.

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My great grandfather was a hired farm hand in Illinois when he was drafted in 1864. He had a wife and a couple of kids. There were, as far as my father knows, no benefits available to the families left behind, and my great grandfather refused to go. He spent a harrowing winter outside in a stockade in Peoria, and in spring his employer loaned him $300 to buy a replacement draftee, who departed from Cairo, Il, and arrived at Appomattox just after the battle ended.

As I like to say, my family has been good at avoiding fighting. Both my grandfathers went to the army in WWI but were mustered out before seeing going overseas. Same with my father in WWII.

From a reproductive point of view, our lack of combat has worked out quite nicely. :wink:

Comparing Trump to Arnold might be even a more apt comparison, as both tried to sell out the country to a foreign power.

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Not to mention how laughable it is for Donald J. Trump, one of the most un-read and tacky, uncultured human beings to claim Manhattan as his home, justifies his racist speculations on the “culture” of the South. Culture of white supremacy and suppression of black equality in every single aspect of life. Next he will want to protect the culture of those who demonstrated against the integration of southern schools and universities.

Exactly. Washington built a nation, Lee tried to tear it down and build his own on the rubble.