Discussion: Riots, Looting Engulf Baltimore; Gov Declares Curfew, State of Emergency

Once again, your memory is as faulty as that of a late-stage Alzheimer’s patient. You should stick to facts in your face because your memory is for shit. I never once called Darren Wilson a “murderer” and your continued attempt to conflate me with other posters here who are sick of you is pathetic. Take a memory class before you respond to me again because I cannot abide your half-assed lying.

“I know lots of parents of black teenagers in inner city environments, I live in NYC” is tantamount to “I’m not a racist, I have many black friends.”

Most of us are grateful we don’t live in bad neighborhoods which is the reason it’s slightly disingenuous when we judge most rioters from our privileged perches. How to judge what many of these people must be going through or judge their actions? Well, we can judge but we can’t say with certainty we wouldn’t react like these kids if we grew up like they do in bad neighborhoods. Whose fault is it these kids are forced to live like this. Collective indifference from people like all of us is the reason these kids live as they do. Then we condemn them for the inappropriate behavior which is somewhat expected given their situations. I’m not excusing it but I can’t in good conscience, condemn too much from the perch of my nice, safe neighborhood. That said, some are clearly bad actors who just want to make trouble. They don’t care about themselves let alone Freddie Gray.

You’re funny.

You’re a pathetic piece of shit and I feel burdened having to swat you down like a bad dog who poops in the living room.

Btw, which part of NYC do you consider “an inner city environment”? Do you live north of 125th Street? In the South Bronx? In Brownsville or Bed-Stuy? You claim to live in “an inner city environment” – where exactly?

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And the right wing just had one big collective orgasm.

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It’s really hard to justify this kind of looting and burning - no matter what happened. I do understand the tipping point reference and I am not unsympathetic at all. The protests had been so civil and then all of a sudden this. I am still not convinced this was done by outside agitators trying to make the citizens look bad. It’s happened many times before. It doesn’t take much to unleash the anger

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Correct, there is no justification for this kind of rioting, just like there is no justification for how Mr. Gray was treated. BOTH are wrong, and anyone trying to justify the rioting part of this due to “pressure” is just nuts, just like anyone who would justify what the police did to Mr. Gray because of the “pressure” police are under is also nuts.

The people throwing bricks and starting fires are criminals who should be locked up (as should police who kill for no reason). The people protesting, even if they are yelling at police , are protesting a legit cause. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

I’m frustrated by reporters’ failure to ask Carnival Cruz whether this is an example of resistance to government tyranny, which the Cuban-Canadian-American Senator thinks the Second Amendment exists to protect.

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I have friends and have dated women in those areas, as well as Crown Heights, Washington Heights, Jamaica, etc. Point? I’m all over the city for work too. Does it disturb you that I have black friends, black dates, black employees and black clients?

And by the way, north of 125th street is a pretty nice area, I guess you have not been in NYC for a long time.

Agreed, and it’s obviously not ALWAYS the adults fault, some kids are just bad eggs. But in general my experience is when kids get some good guidance, they are better kids. And money is not as significant as people think. Many a kid from a wealthy family does stuff like this. And many a kid from poor families are exemplary kids.

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No, it disturbs me that you think you understand these pressures enough to condemn people because you drove them in your fucking cab. Are you for real? I have rarely encountered anyone so self-absorbed that you think you can speak for all peoples and all their troubles. You are a revolting human being.

And, not for nothing, dumbass, but I have lived in Manhattan for 41 years and I currently live in East Harlem. You are an epic fail from start to finish.

What? I don’t drive a cab. Where do you get this stuff from? I run a construction company. What the hell are you talking about?

I bet 200 billion Paul Ryan dollars, which don’t count because they’ll never make it into an actual budget, that some sort of riot breaks out celebrating some city’s Stanley Cup victory.

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You said, “Oh, and I am in a cab” and “I’m all over the city for work too.” I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you had an occupation that actually allowed you to interact with various races and ethnicities. Obviously, I gave you too much credit. You run a construction company but you feel comfortable speaking for African American parents in Baltimore.

Is there no bottom to your delusions?

It’s absolutely inexcusable behavior as is the behavior that caused this angry backlash. Both are inexcusable. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. People just need to get that but few seem to. That said I won’t condemn it personally because I feel it might be hypocritical for me to condemn it as I’ve never been poor, black, brown or disenfranchised so I don’t know how I’d act if I were? I accept that limitation. Still I agree this is inexcusable even if they’re dumb, stupid kids.

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And the difference is always the parents in your experience? No child ever overcame a lazy or criminal parent? Or, the converse, that a diligent parent never had to face a delinquent child? See where this is going?

Probably not. Your understanding of the world is painfully pedestrian.

If there is one thing that can definitely be said to be unhelpful with respect to Baltimore, I believe it is this: the sympathy of white liberals with the folks of Baltimore that comes couched in smug, glib moralizing about the indefensibility of rioting.

Riots of the type unfolding in Baltimore are not, first and foremost, attempts to be ‘helpful.’ Riots like these are expressions of pent up frustration and rage, undertaken by people who have lost all faith in any of the normal, purportedly ‘helpful’ channels or processes. They do not function according to carefully calculated strategies of what is likely or not likely to help a given cause. They are expressions of raw emotion on the part of people who are desperate, and who feel that their grievances have not been heard . . . by design. Instead of asking whether the actions of the rioters is ‘helpful,’ maybe a better question to ask is, “Is their rage justified.” I believe it is.

Some will argue that while the rage in Ferguson may be justified, violence and looting never are. Well, perhaps, but when it gets to the point that people feel they must riot in order to be heard, then they are already way past a point where they see any value in recognizing a society’s norms for what is considered to be “justified.” This is a community that feels it has been denied justice, not just in the case of Freddie Gray, but in case after case, and city after city, across this country over many, many years. They have watched as peaceful protest after peaceful protest across the country has failed to yield anything by way of substantive reform. Thus, anyone who presumes to preach to this community about behaving in a manner that is “constructive” or “helpful” is clueless, as well as being smug and condescending in the extreme. For these folks, the very notion of working through ‘proper channels’ or ‘the political process,’ indeed, of the very idea of ‘law and order’ and ‘justice,’ have ceased to have any legitimacy whatsoever. This is not to suggest that rioting is right, but rather that for the folks involved in these riots, categories of right and wrong seem to be little more than cruel illusions, rendering these terms largely irrelevant and useless in engaging the issues in any kind of constructive way.

What I believe the people of Baltimore need right now is a lot less sympathy, and a lot more empathy. Try to imagine the depth of the rage you would feel it were your children, or your community’s children, whom society had decided could be summarily executed by police, their killers facing virtually no accountability whatsoever. How many times would it have to happen before you were overtaken by cynicism towards terms like “justice” and “the rule of law.”

By the time we get to the point where riots such as these break out, we are WAY past the point of careful, deliberate planning and choices. Rational decision-making is no longer even relevant, because from where the rioters sit, if the world ever had any rationality in the first place, for them it long ago ceased to exist. Yes, you are right: riots hurt the very communities whose rage they are expressing. But to sit on the sidelines and lecture people about ‘misdirected’ rage is not only pointless, it is likely tantamount to pouring.gasoline on a fire.

A friend of mine tonight put it like this:

Is the violence and chaos upsetting, regrettable, and unfortunate? Certainly. Is it occurring because nobody’s taken the time to calmly and rationally explain to the rioters why rioting is bad? F*** you.

Exactly.

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Yes, I was IN a cab. Did you think I was driving one and typing at the same time? You projected, like you always do.

I am in the construction biz (and work in 4 boroughs), so I have interactions with ALL kinds of races, ethnicities, etc. Have my whole life. In school there were far more minorities in my classes than whites. No big deal, but that’s my background.

When did I say I was speaking “for” anyone? Again, what on earth are you talking about? Your premise seems to be that no one can criticize anyone unless they are them. So again, I can’t criticize Cheney because I am not from Wyoming or in the oil biz, right?

Wow.

this is a perfect example of how the congressional black caucus has failed the black community. they will give your jobs to third world countries and tell you its for progress. Obama has governed over the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class and poor to the rich than anytime in history - however no one in the press ever ask is this a byproduct o the economic bailout and not holding officer accountable for their actions.

here is a question the press should ask - the military is made up of poor and middle class, do you ever fear it will turn on this government

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Yep, Cheney and a parent from Baltimore. Soulmates.

“Yes, I was IN a cab. Did you think I was driving one and typing at the same time?” Geez, no one ever stopped a cab to text. It’s never happened in recorded history.

Any other clever evasions?

“When did I say I was speaking “for” anyone?”

When did I accuse you of speaking FOR anyone? I accused you of condemning people you can’t possibly understand. “And it seems there are a lot of kids in in it too, which does not say much for the adults that are supposed to be supervising those kids.”

Does not say much for the adults that [sic] are supposed to be supervising those kids.

Stop condemning people about whom you have no fucking clue. It’s that simple. You don’t even see the inherent racism in your comment. “Those black parents just don’t know how to raise their kids!”

You are an ugly person.

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