Discussion: Report: Intel Officials Investigating Trump Advisor's Ties To Putin Allies

Well, to be fair, not a commie. Rather, he’s a tool of an emerging new ideology that has already taken control of the governments of multiple nations but that has yet to acquire a name or be recognized as such. “Putinism” is probably the best name, but maybe “Pseudodemocracy” or “Shamocracy” would be the closest if you don’t want to personalize it.

It’s authoritarianism supported by kleptocratic regime vassals veiled and legitimated by the offices, forms and civic rituals of a subverted ex-democracy. State-controlled media masquerading as independent news channels, hyper nationalistic and xenophobic, utterly lawless, intensely but discreetly violent–discreet in the sense that the regime portrays acts of political violence by state actors as random crimes by street criminals or unsavory elements the victim was associating with. And, underlying it all, an ongoing experiment in determining the minimum amount of freedom necessary to maintain popular support if media is state controlled.

It’s taken full control of Russia, most of Russia’s former USSR client states and is increasingly taking hold of Hungary, Turkey and the Philippines. You can clearly see the far right parties of several European democracies–Britain, France, Germany, Denmark, the Netherlands, Greece, more and more aligning themselves with it, particularly in the countries where Putin is supporting them.

And now it’s taken control of one of the United States’ two major political parties and still we won’t recognize it for what it is and who’s seeking to spread it by direct aid and encouragement.

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I’m giggling like crazy - nothing is ever enough for the people who see doom around every corner.

First of all, the Russian hack of the DNC was reported in all the media - print, broadcast, you name it. Then Ass-ange surfaced and it all came back up.

Before that happened even, Trump shot off his mouth about NATO and freaked out the rest of the world and that was reported.

Every major GOP foreign policy figure for the last 20 years has endorsed Hillary and Trump’s ties and flattery of Putin have been one reason almost all of them stated.

Who cares if Sherrod Brown gives a statement? Why would voters pay any more attention to elected Democrats than to a bunch of heavyweight foreign policy figures?

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ncsteve - your comment is right the fuck on and gave me chills.

brilliant

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But will the state media generate enough celebrity gossip, cute cat/dog stories, and sports coverage to keep the plebs in the dark?

RUSSIA FIRST!
-Trump/Pence 2016

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Why would voters pay any more attention to elected Democrats than to a bunch of heavyweight foreign policy figures?

I think you’re overestimating the amount of attention that the average voter gives to foreign policy heavyweights unless it’s covered by the talking heads on TV. Trump’s comments about NATO might have freaked out Europe, but the average American voter on his own could hardly tell you what NATO does. The fact that Trump is as close as he is in states like Ohio and Wisconsin should indicate that a large percentage of Americans simply don’t have foreign policy on their radar unless it’s being hammered home on a daily basis, and the episodic media reports don’t do that.

I think Clinton will win, but unless the margin is large enough in popular vote in critical states, her coattails aren’t likely to be very long. A 51-49 Dem Senate margin still provides the GOP with ample room for obstruction. That’s why it’s critical to destroy every bit of Trump’s attractiveness beyond his hard core support, and Democrats staying silent won’t help that. Voters respond to an energetic party that speaks loudly with a consistent message from its prominent members.

Why would voters pay any more attention to elected Democrats than to a bunch of heavyweight foreign policy figures?

Cardin, Boxer, Shaheen, Udall, Markey, Coons, and Murphy are all on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, along with Tim Kaine. Are they not heavyweights?

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I take exception to your “both sides do it” claim, but otherwise I’m with you.

Honestly, I’ve been worrying about it for a while now. Rove made it abundantly clear that when he spoke of making the Republican Party the “permanent governing party,” what he was talking about was a Putinized sham democracy supported by plutocratic vassals and cowed, if not entirely subservient, media and a bit of vote rigging. When that all fell apart for them, after Katrina, my concern eased. But when Putin shoved Medvedev aside and took back the reins, it became a matter of growing concern for me again.

As with so many things, Romney grasped a tiny corner of the truth and used it as a platform to be utterly wrong because he just didn’t know dick about history or foreign affairs and thought his brilliant business brilliance was equivalent to foreign policy expertise so he didn’t have to bone up. Russia is, as Obama said, a regional problem, not a global strategic peer competitor the way it used to be. But the way Putin runs the place has become a model and a laboratory and a cancer.

After the Berlin Wall fell, the last great ideological challenge to democracy collapsed and the Soviets ceased supporting their authoritarian shitholes and our authoritarian shitholes lost the communist bogieman as a prop. After a couple of centuries where democracy was an often-beleaguered yet morally ascendent force, we entered into a period when we saw democracy finally triumphant as it took root in country after country during the 1980’s and 90’s.

And now, here we are as the second generation that has known no other world than that one enters adulthood and a new ideological threat has arisen. It hides in plain sight by severing democracy’s moral ascendance from the institutions that created and sustained it and using that moral force to cloak the same old authoritarian structures–state controlled media, secret police, aristocracy, and a half-sane autocrat at the top–we faced throughout our history.

Overtly anti-democratic xenophobic hypernationalist parties are on the march in democracies–functioning, faltering and failed–across the world. And still, we persist and looking at them as local phenomena, attributable to local conditions, rather than as a trans-national interconnected movement.

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I think you assume too much - or actually too little - about ‘average voters’ and what they pay attention to. As Josh said on one of his pieces recently - voters are not as stupid or as bigoted as some people think.

Sure those are heavy hitters. I still don’t think they carry more weight than ex heads of the CIA but the more the merrier.

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If we had been paying closer attention in the 80s and 90s we would have seen what was coming because we saw the roots of it in the Bosnian War in the 90s. To be honest, I saw the re-emergence of fascism start up the minute the Wall came down. It was always there, Communism just kept it frozen.

I’ve watched the emergence of this populist/nationalist/fascist movement with a lot of concern myself and it is almost incredible to me - almost unbelievable, really, that Putin has stirred that pot here, too.

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Don’t forget Ted Cruz! He’s nasty enough to be added to that list.

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It’s been listening to the media talk about UKIP, Front Nationale, Golden Dawn, and whatever they call themselves in Denmark and the Netherlands without connecting the godamn dots and seeing the pattern that has been most worrying to me.

Americans in the 19th century had no trouble seeing monarchism as an ideology separate and apart from the intensely nationalistic form it took in each country where it existed. They looked at Europe and saw a continent where everyone in government wore a fancy uniform and oppressed the peasants had a title, not Russian ministers in uniforms and German ministers uniforms and Austrian ministers and uniforms and, most of the time, French ministers in uniforms. When fascism arose in the 30’s, we had no trouble seeing Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, and the other fascist nations as being of a piece rather than sui generis.

But over the long decades of the Cold War I think we somehow allowed the overt (if usually phony) internationalism of communism to blind us to the existence of transnational ideologies that don’t purport to be anything but purely local. It’s what has us confusing an aggressively transnational religion with ideology and not seeing a real emerging transnational ideology where it exists.

Or, hell, I don’t know. Maybe we’re just too damn stupid to hold on to democracy. Maybe when two generations have lived under “the worst form of government except for all the others” without having exemplars of “all the others” actively threatening them, all they see is “the worst” part and don’t grasp the “all the others are even worse” part.

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That’s always a danger of course but I don’t think we’re going down that path and I also think Europe will fight going down that path, depending on what part of Europe we’re talking about. I worry mostly about Greece right now. Anything could happen there and Putin knows that. And historically Greece has had a close relationship with Russia. The one stumbling block there is Turkey - Putin is very cozy with Erdogan and Greece of course loathes Turkey.

I don’t know - we’re in a period of historical transition it seems.

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Maybe the massive NSA surveillance of telecommunications isn’t all bad.

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Um, yikes!

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Historical transition that should not include Trumpski in the Oval Office.

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Trump wants the United States to do more of the things Russia wants us to.

Trump considers it a good deal for America to fulfill Putin’s wish list.

O god help us no and I just honestly can’t see it and I hope I’m right but I think so.

I think so for a number of reasons that haven’t always been talked about and one is Obama’s high approval rating. I think that translates almost directly to votes for Hillary. I don’t see how it can not - a majority of Americans are satisfied with the direction of the country, ergo they don’t want a huge change right now and mostly Americans aren’t big on huge change anyway. And I maintain faith in a majority of Americans. I think a majority of Americans are smart enough to abhor Trump or at the very least, not consider him presidential material.

I’m glad our intelligence is engaged with this whole Putin thing now. It sounds like they are fully engaged finally.

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Not to mention his wife, daughter of a Commie.

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Repeating that this is the strangest election I’ve ever seen or known about.

Of course, to many people, it’s just another one.

Have to keep that in mind.

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