Discussion for article #221934
I really doubt there will be any blood shed. I do believe Bundy will end up incarcerated however.
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Well I guess the new “serious” glasses didn’t help him much in the intelligence department.
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“And that’s the reason I think that the Bureau of Land Management needs to be really careful about coming — whether it’s Nevada or Texas or Oklahoma or whatever state it might be — and acting like private property is something that they control and that they are going to be able to make the decision about who this belongs to.”
WTF? Since when are federal lands "private property?
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Attention freeloaders and weekend revolutionaries: Careful what you wish for.
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Stands to reason. If you stiff the feds out of a million bucks over twenty years and then invite a thousand gun-waving kooks over to the house when they come to collect, you’ve been pushing your luck way beyond the point where you can expect it to hold.
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Posturing ass, horn-rims or no.
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Oh, of course, since a lying, deadbeat Bundy is only beckoning success?
Everyone bow your heads for a moment of pity for the poor butt-hurt conservative victims of discount grazing.
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The BLM is acting lawfully. Bundy isn’t.
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He’s so fucking stupid he probably thinks federally owned land IS private property.
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“During an appearance on Fox News Pravda, Perry Putin defended the armed groups that have camped out in Bunkerville, Nev. the Crimea Autonomous Republic this month to show solidarity with defiant rancher Cliven Bundy ousted-President Viktor Yanukovych, who has refused to pay $1 million in cattle grazing fees that he owes recognize the federal government.”
Fixed.
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Oooops!
Governor Good Hair steps in it again.
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Uh. Governor. They aren’t on private lands. Maybe you put on the wrong set of glasses.
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And give the wingnuts another martyr.
““I have a problem with the federal government putting citizens in the position of having to feel like they have to use force to deal with their own government. That’s the bigger issue,” Perry told Varney.”
Says the guy who can’t get enough gov’t sponsored executions.
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Yeah, who needs that pesky rule of law?
Just grab your guns (if you are white) and decide for yourself which laws you want to follow.
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Hey Governor dipshit.
The land in question is NOT, and NEVER was the private property of the Bundy clan, and has always been Federal land from the time it was signed over to the United States as part of the peace agreement to end the Mexican-American War, before Nevada was even a state much less when the Bundy clan showed up over decade after Nevada became a State. The was is part of what is known as the “Mexican Cession of 1848.” All of Nevada, California, Arizona and most of New Mexico were part of the Cession and went from Mexican ownership to United States Federal ownership. This was part of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 which became the law 18 years before Nevada’s entrance into the Union, and some 30 years before the Bundy clan moved from the territory of Utah to state of Nevada in 1880.
Cliven Bundy and his clan paid grazing fees for the better part of a century beginning in the early 1930s when grazing rights on Federal lands were formalized and codified with the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934.
Before the Taylor Grazing Act, these government lands were called “the public domain.” They could be privatized, under the Homestead Act and such, but the acreage allowed per homesteader was limited to 160 acres. There were no 158,000 acre homestead privatizations and certainly no 750,000 acre privatizations. Livestock owners ran their livestock freely without a permit on the public domain. They didn’t even need a home base of property (a ranch).
The result were a disaster because any landless livestock operator herding his livestock (or letting them roam) onto public domain lands that could find green grass first won out. This had the effect of promoting very bad and destructive and unsustainable grazing practices. That was the reason for Taylor Grazing Act in the first place—ranchers and others could see the public domain system led to disasters, both to the land itself via overgrazing (a major contributor to the Dust bowls in the early 1930s in the arid west) and armed conflict or “range wars” on the ground.
Under the the Taylor Grazing Act, the ranchers with “base” private property in the area received grazing permits. This got rid of the landless livestock operators and effectively ended the range wars in the 20th century.
Taylor Grazing was administered on the ground by the U.S. Grazing Service (long before the Bureau of Land Management even came into existence). Now, ranchers with grazing permits had to pay a grazing fee to use their permits but it also stabilized livestock and cattle ranching in the west. Bundy’s ancestors probably got one of these grazing permits, but they most certainly did not buy the land. That was not possible. The public domain was not for sale and ranchers generally did not want it. After all, if they owned it, they would owe local property tax.
Bundy had only base property and normal AUM grazing allotment permits like the permits of thousands of other ranchers throughout the western US. Bundy has the habit of referring to the Gold Butte area as his land, the Bundy family’s actual land holdings in the area are limited to a parcel of about 160 acres along the Virgin River used for growing melons.
He lost in court when it was shown that he did not own the land. He then tried to claim that Nevada, not the Federal government (which he does not recognize as even existing) owns the land and he has “ancestral grazing rights”. This was also shown to be a false claim by Bundy as the land in question is indeed public lands given to the Federal Government United States as part of the aforementioned “Mexican Cession”.
While Bundy has claimed that his family has “pre-emptive rights” to the land from the time his family allegedly moved from Utah Territory to the State of Nevada in 1877, it has since come to light that Cliven Bundy’s parents only bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt, according Clark County property records. Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Furthermore, court records show Bundy family cattle didn’t start grazing on that land until 1954.
He and his family paid the grazing fees up until early 1990s (right up until 1993 when the Clinton administration came into office). Even his own daughter (Shiree Bundy Cox) stated this, and tried to claim that her father tried to pay the fees to the county (who don’t own the BLM land and have no role in collecting the grazing fees).
Bundy is a nut and thieving malcontent who, beginning in the early 1990s, decided he didn’t have to recognize the Federal government or pay for the use of our publicly owned resources.
This would be no different than me visiting and paying park entry fees to enter the Sequia National forest, then turning around a few decades later and say I don’t recognize Federal authority because I don’t agree with how the Federal government spends money, and then proclaim I can go start cutting down trees in the park because I want to sell furniture made out of redwood.
Rick Perry is simply an ill-informed idiot trying to garner more libertarian anti-gov. creds.
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Nice work. Even worse than Cliven Bundy’s lying is Sean Hannity also knowing these facts and pretending they don’t exist–enabling a possible tragedy just to prop up failing ratings.
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Les - Man, that was good, thank you. Another great example of why the posters here are more valuable than the articles.
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Nice post. The facts are obvious to anyone who has even a flimsy grasp of reliable reporting. This makes me wonder what the hell Perry and Abbot are up to.
I think an interesting aspect of this is how we are seeing elected officials using these people. It is frighteningly reminiscent of the ideas in Robert Paxton’s Five Stages of Fascism , because this is a pretty awful example of stage three in Texas.
Perry and Abbot have both talked about this and what I take away is that they are effectively inviting these armed assholes to share power. It is an uncomfortable alliance, but the alliance is clear. This is not good at all. Cooperation between elected government officials and armed assholes to beat back progressive ideals seems to me to be an emerging threat.
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